I've been doing work for a company and it's coming up to a year now...
Basically I started by working the VAT returns out for them (manually)... and then the company accountant persuaded the company director to go onto Sage.
Their system needed organising as in effect there wasn't one and a computerised system was the best way forward.
Upon starting work for this company it was agreed I'd work at my hourly rate and when I offered to go and work at their premises the Co Dir was happy for me to simply collect documents and work from home (as I have a young child). The company bought a laptop and the Co Acc installed Sage 50 onto it.
I was then asked to enter all the P/L invs, receipts and S/L invs etc onto Sage. As the VAT had been worked manually... there were adjustments which would need to be overseen by the com acc. There had been occasions where I had called to collect documents (pre-arranged) and the co dir had forgotten and so I had made a wasted journey. Their premises are about 20 miles from where I live.
I then learned to telephone before calling!, and just recently as I've been working alongside the Co Acc, he'd offered to collect paperwork and meet me with it as we needed to meet up to discuss the way forward and the said adjustments.
I started working on the Sage side of things back at the beginning of August and spent a total of 56 hours sorting out and organising the paperwork (as it was not in order, of any kind!!!) so obviously this has added to the time taken... The usual pattern too has been that I've reached the the end of a quarter only to be told there are yet more documents from the company to be entered which they've omitted to give me.
As I've been liasing with the Co Acc (as he lives near me), he's recently been collecting the extra documents for me. Importantly as we've been in the middle of reconciling and adjusting things I hadn't submitted my invoice as I didn't feel I could as I had hadn't completed a certain 'section/block' of work.
I received a call on Monday (as there were yet more documents to collect) and as the Co Dir had been complaining he hadn't seen me for a while (which I learned via the Co Acc) I suggested going to collect them in person. I also thought it was an opportunity to also deliver an invoice (as I'd been working continuously on one section for 3 months).
I had a brief discussion with the Co Dir about the current VAT and other items but upon giving him my invoice he complained about the amount. There were detailed time sheets attached. I tried to explain how time consuming the intial setting up on Sage is eg, adding all the cust & supp details nevermind the invoices etc and the paperwork was not at all in order (as everyone on here knows!!!) He basically said 'I'm not value for money' and that he'd have to verify my hours with the Co Acc. As an honest person I was extremely taken aback... and upset as I've worked extremely hard. He did give me a cheque but he wasn't happy.
I explained he needed to divide my invoice by 3 to get a true reflection (of monthly amount) but he was quite serious and said he would have to review his need for my services, that he's a businessman and he has the right to say how he feels, which I understand.
It was agreed at the outset that I would work for an hourly rate until all of the paperwork was up-todate and then I'd arrange a fixed-fee.
It's such a shame as I've almost finished the time consuming part...
Any advice here would be most welcome... as I have the next block of work to do... but am unsure where I currently stand... I e-mailed the Co Acc to tell him what had been said and ask the best way forward but have heard nothing...
Has anyone else encountered problems when working from home?... In not being believed on the number of hours worked etc? I thought timesheets would be ok, but I'm now thinking it would be easier to work on-site so he can see how long it can and does take!
Any input on this would be much appreciated, Many thanks...
The real issue is that business owners do not realise how time consuming computerisatio actually is. They buy the software and think that they can them simply switch it on and everything will be fine but of course there is an awful lot of work between instalation and fine which lets be honest, for any business is dead money.
They want to see the results nd they are willing to pay for the software but the real expensive bit is time and unless they do it themselves they never appreciate how long that will take.
On the bright side you got your money. Many businesses would hav tried to beat your invoice down.
The mistake that you made was to leave it too long between invoices. You need to keep the client informed how much the work is costing them as until they start seeing figures they are probably thinking that you are spending a couple of hours a week on the work and the final figures will be some insignificant sum.
For small business owners it is all about cashflow and to hit with a big bill out of the blue can really upset them.
I can actually see the issue from both yours and the business owners perspectives and both of you actually have good arguements although you may be unlikely to see it as an outsider can from the other persons perspective.
For the accountants part they will probably not talk to you whilst there is an issue with the client. The problem there is one of ensuring that they are not put in a situation where they might be expected to defend the bookkeeper to the client who is paying them.
Good luck going forwards but I think that you should also be looking at other opportunities as I expect that the client may give the work going forwards to the accountant... Who may then very well contact you to work for them!
lets see how this pans out.
kind regards and sorry for your current problems,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
As Shaun has said your problem has been waiting too long to raise the first invoice.
You say you have done 56 hours to date which equates to 8 days on a 7 hours working day.
The client as is normally the case will have thought bookkeeping is simply just putting some figures into the software which will churn out the final position. I bet if you ask them how long they thought at the start it would take to get everything done they would probably say 2 or 3 days.
The lesson to be learnt is that when undertaking a large project to invoice in small stages and inform the client where you are with things and how long you expect it will be till everything is up to date. Then they can make an informed decision whether it worth it for them to carry on. At the end of the day there isnt any point in you doing 8 days work and you only getting paid for 2 or 3 as thats what they thought it would cost.
I can only echo what has been said by Shaun and Mark, you really should have invoiced monthly or at least kept the director informed of the costs on a regular basis. This is one of the huge problems with charging hourly, I call it ambush pricing where the business don't really know what they will be paying then get hit with a huge bill they were not expecting.
Many business owners genuinely don't know how longr bookkeeping takes, it's not their fault, it's not their area or they wouldn't employ us.
I would try to remedy this gy moving to a fixed price asap, and getting the director organised.
Thank you everyone, and sorry for the delay in my reply.
I think I definitely left it too long between invoicing and sadly relied on the assumption that the company accountant was liasing and updating my client as I was sort of working under his instruction too.
Luckily I managed to have a chat to him, and I think with the help of the company accountant advising him of how time consuming bookkeeping actually is, he is now fine.
One key change now is that I'm working for him on-site at his premises... and on production of my most recent invoice, I did actually say I felt bad about handing it over to him! He said the 'misunderstanding' was now water under the bridge, so hopefully he will remain a long-term client.
I have now learnt my lesson, and also as you have all quite rightly pointed out, clients do not understand the sheer time the job can take.
I am now billing each of my clients monthly in arrears for my hours and so far this seems to be working... Just felt bad as I felt accused of spanning the work out and when you're honest that's hard to take.
Thanks again for your time and importantly support... faith in the job now restored!...
