I passed my level 1 and 2 in manual & computerised book keeping in 2011. For various personal reasons I was unable to devcelop my career as a book keeper at that time.
So, my question is - If I wanted to do the 'books' for some clients would I need to go on a 'refresher' course or is the knowledge I obtained in 2011 enough for me to do my job effectively?
Also, can you please advice how I could get clients? What are the best places to advertise for my services & how much can I charge?
Bookkeeping is still the same as it was hundreds of years ago so doubt you would need to go on a refresher course unless of course you have forgot what the course covered.
Various threads on here as to ways to attach clients but common ones are
1. Tell your family and friends - they may know someone
2. Advertise in local magazines
3. Put postcards up in local newsagents/shops
4. Get flyers printed and go round local businesses asking to leave some
5. Go to networking events in your area
6. Outsource to telenetworking companies who will phone round for you
7. Get a website set up
8. Get some SEO work done on your website
9. Get active on social media eg facebook, twitter and linkedin.
You will be suprised on how much you remember, trust me! I was shocked as to how much i could recall, the only issue i had was everything is not as straight forward as it is in the text books, there's SO many more variables to keep an eye out for. But thats where this forum comes into its own! i really is a gold mine of info and you can pretty much get the answer to any problems you have.
Just be sure that you dont undertake any work out of your scope and make sure you get a practising certifcate plus PII insurance! :D
Just as an addition to Gary's post, you don't have to have a practising certificate, but you do if you belong to a professional body such as the ICB or IAB. Much more important is registering under the Anti-Money Laundering Regulations. If you belong to a professional body then you are normally covered for this, but if not then you need to register with HMRC. You also need to register as self-employed.
I haven't started my book keeping work for various personal reasons during the last month or so. However, I am now in a position to start and just wanted a bit more info from you kind folks -
1. Which local magazines could I advertise my services? 2. What about advertising on websites - the one where you can get quotes from local tradesmen? 3. I have got Facebook, Twitter, and Linked In accounts. How can I actively advertise my book keeping services on there? 4. When taking on my first job, I will probably take a lot longer than, say, my 20th job. What would be a realistic time frame I could give to the client?
1. When (and if) I have 2 or more clients on my books, would there be large amounts of paper work to go through? Would I have to allocate an area of my home solely for this business?
2. During the last few weeks, I have asked a few self employed people such as window cleaners, plumbers and builders if they would like me 'to do the books for them'. In the majority of cases, the answer I get is 'the wife does the books for me'. Does that mean anyone who is good at dealing with figures/numbers and paper work can do the books? If so, what is the point of gaining a book keeping qualification?
1. When (and if) I have 2 or more clients on my books, would there be large amounts of paper work to go through? Would I have to allocate an area of my home solely for this business?
Varies from client to client. Personally I think that the minimum is a dedicated desk (around 5ft * 3ft). Personally I also like to have around 12ft square of floor space to sort/collate the paperwork for annual clients although I could probably do that on the desk if it wasn't so cluttered with other stuff.
2. During the last few weeks, I have asked a few self employed people such as window cleaners, plumbers and builders if they would like me 'to do the books for them'. In the majority of cases, the answer I get is 'the wife does the books for me'. Does that mean anyone who is good at dealing with figures/numbers and paper work can do the books?
Everyone who can add a line of figures thinks that they can save themselves money by doing it themselves but often have no real idea what they are doing and are actually costing themselves money (without ever realising it).
Micro businesses are a notoriously difficult market as they tend to watch every penny (whilst often missing the pounds flying out of the window!). They are put accross as needing a bookkeeper by the various bodies but my experience is they are the least likely to ever adopt professional assistance.
If so, what is the point of gaining a book keeping qualification?
Hypahetically to do it properly! but... the lowest levels of bookkeeping qualification (the bare minimum for a practicing certificate) do not prepare you to assist the clients in the way that they need as micro businesses want their bookkeeper to act as a one stop sollution. Basically a cheap accountant.
Unfortunately the ability to give the advice that the clients need is sometwhat more expensive to acquire. (top level ICB / IAB / AAT etc. and / or brought forwards experience from working in practice).
Thanks in advance for your responses.
No probs,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Regarding my 2nd question, you state that 'Micro businesses are a notoriously difficult market.' How can I then persuade them to employ a properly qualified book keeper?
Another thing you mention is ' Unfortunately the ability to give the advice that the clients need is somewhat more expensive to acquire. (top level ICB / IAB / AAT etc. and / or brought forwards experience from working in practice).'
I am qualified to level 2. So you think that is 'top level ICB?
Would you also be kind enough to provide answers to my other 2 questions?
I would call top level ICB the new level IV where they start venturing into accountants territory and the same with the other two. The key is that you are looking at the businesses with more of a view from the perspective of the accounts than the raw data.
The lower levels of the qualifcations are all about data entry and correction rther than turning that raw data into useful information.
I feel that only when you know where every data element will eventually end up and the effect that initial data has on the financial statements are you in a position to start giving small businesses the real assistance that they need.
As for micro businesses I would not waste my time chasing them but rather ensure that they knew that I was there so that when they ase ready they come to me.
Same scenario that you use to catch a horse.
Chase it around the field as much as you like but you will never catch it. Sit down, do nothing and as long as it knows that you are there eventually it will come to you.
kind regards,
Shaun.
p.s. I assume they were the two questions that you were referring to?
p.s.2 got to go out now but will be back in an hour or so. talk then, Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
3. I have got Facebook, Twitter, and Linked In accounts. How can I actively advertise my book keeping services on there? 4. When taking on my first job, I will probably take a lot longer than, say, my 20th job. What would be a realistic time frame I could give to the client?
in addition, I have got my level 2 ICB almost completed my AAT. Do you suggest that I study book keeping to level 4? Would I get any exemptions because of my AAT qualifications? How would I demonstrate to a potential client that I am qualified to top level ICB?
No idea on 3. as I don't use Facebook or Twitter at all. I do have a Linkedin profile but from a business perspective it seems like everyone is trying to sell and nobody wants to buy so at the moment I just use it to stay in touch with old freinds.
With 4 thats actually been covered in a thread on the site. I'll try and dig a pointer for that one out for you in a bit
Clients often don't even know what ICB is let alone there being different levels of it. However, from the client perspective the logo and word certified on stationary looks impressive.
The exemptions available keep changing and you would be better getting the information direct from the ICB. I think that James has done a lot of work in changing the views both internally within the ICB as much as those outside the organisation so whilst back in 2011 the ICB stance was that accuntants cannot do bookkeeping (lol) and they included AAT as an accountancy rather than bookkeeping qualification (to my mind it has a foothold in both camps) I am sure that such opinion must have changed over the last year or so.
You can get a practicing certificate at level II but the key is that the practie certificate (and PII) covers you only for work that you are deemed capable to perform and such capability will be judged in the exams that you have passed. From the PII perspective that could be via ICB or some other body.
You say that you have almost completed AAT so I assume that you are doing ICB for the MLR, networking and cheaper PII (remember to compare your trafalgar quote to Arlington).
If you were only ICB I would suggest going through to level IV. As you are also AAT I would suggest sticking at AICB and taking only the AAT through to completion as they both cover the same material but AAT has more of it and is a more widely recognised qualification espechially with accountancy practices (who you will be working with a lot).
kind regards,
Shaun.
p.s. sorry for any missing characters in the above but I think that I've worn my keyboard out!
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
loads of pricing threads but mostly degenerate into debates about value pricing with Bob on one side and everyone else on the other.
What you are talking about is the learning curve in that as time passes we get faster at what we do and why should client A pay more than client B for performing the same task a month appart.
If you work from home there is generally an expectation that you will perform a certain amount of work for the money paid which can result in early days not even hitting minimum wage due to it taking much longer to do the work expected to be performed in a given timeframe.
In the early days working on client sites is actually easier as they can see what you are doing and so are more willing to pay up in the knowledge that you are not charging them to watch daytime TV.
The whole idea of how long a job will take is very much akin to how long is a peice of string as most clients are different in some way and the 80:20 rule always seems applicable in that 80% of the work will take 20% of the time.
Make sure that you know what you are taking on before you quote. Look at the existing books, transaction volumes, fee's charged by the outgoing bookkeeper, etc. Think how long you believe it will take, multiply that by your standard hourly rate, review the figure adjusting up or down as you see fit and then use that as your line in the sand that you will not go below and negotiate the best price that you can for the work.
Some roles just will not pay and you can end up wasting time on those that could be spent on more lucrative clients.
Do not be affraid to walk away from clients that will not yield the desired profit margin even if you do not currently have sufficient clients to fill all of your time. very client that you take on reduces your capacity for additional clients.
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Shamus, you state that it is better to work at the clients premises during my earlier days. But, would that really be a good idea to tell the client that I am new to book keeping & haven't got much work experience? It is likely that they may go to a more experience book keeper!!
You also state that - Make sure that you know what you are taking on before you quote. This may sound like a silly question, but how can I make sure that I know what I am taking on before I quote
Finally, as you know I am also studying for the AAT. So, do you think it would be better for me to become a Member In Practice rather than a self employed book keeper?
Working at client premises varies from client to client. Some clients want to look over your shoulder at what you are doing. Others are happy to leave you to get on with things.
Personally I know what I'm doing but I still hate beig watched by a clienty and if they do I'll stop and chat to them until they go away (unless I wanty them to be there to justify something in their books).
Some bookkeepers when quoting for a job will have a chat to the owners and make a decision based on that. I take the approach that I want to see the paperwork before I start.
In itself that can be a revelation as to how this is going to go.
Some business owners will firk around not knowing where anything is. Others will have everything filed perfectly.
Have a look through the invoicesand bank statements. How complex are the bank statements? How many transactions are going through. Is there are credit card payment on the bank statement, if so ask to see the credit card statement.
Expect to spend thirty mins+ going through the paperwork to make a call as to how well the client keeps their books and how well the business is doing.
Seek out any paperwork related to the previous bookkeeper / accountant to gauge your rates against the incumbant. Do not be affraid for your rates to be higher if they need to be.
The final decision as to when and under what banner to practice is very much down to you.
I personally would not offer accountancy services until I was MAAT MIP but I know that a good many self employed bookkeepers do go above and beyond bookkeeping services.
The key is that whilst you will not be able to progress by staying within your comfort zone you should never progress so far outside it that you are beyond your level of qualification (and PII).
Good luck and kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
