What Qualification is Best? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

lozi · Member

What Qualification is Best?

lozi · Member

Thanks Nick that is very helpful. Im the type of person that likes to know where im coming from as I take pride in working my way up, plus I think it gives you a better understanding and confidence. Its good to know that it is transferable so that in the future if I want more from my role, I can. I am still unsure which course to study first though, ICB or IAB? I am concerned if ICB is not fully recognised (OFQUAL) then it might causes me problems in the future, but it seems easier to study for as it is more flexible with exams ect.

-- Edited by lozi on Friday 22nd of February 2013 02:39:11 PM

Rhianrach · Expert

I did apply for a job because it was in my area, never heard anything back though,............................... I think I would of made a great finance director and would have managed to spend the £78000 pa no problem.

-- Edited by Rhianrach on Friday 22nd of February 2013 04:30:11 PM

lozi · Member

I eventually want to become a self employed bookkeeper and study at home so I can continue to work in my current job. I have no previous expericence but I have looked into it and know this is what I want to do. However im completely confused by where to go from here and have a few questions:

1. Which course is best to take IAB, ICB or AAT (or is it a matter of opinion)

2. Are all the above recognised qualifications?

3. Theres manual and computerised bookkeeping courses, can I assume computerised is the way forward?

4. For Home Learning, which companies should I use?

5. How many years work experience do you need before being self employed?

Please can anyone advise.

Thanks

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi.

1, If you are certain you want to be a recognised bookkeeper the ICB and IAB are specifically aimed at bookkeepers where as the AAT is more aimed at accounting where you will learn management accounting etc that probably isn't relevant to a bookkeeper. However, the AAT is more highly recognised by employers.

2, The IAB and AAT are recognised by OFQUAL, where as the ICB isn't. However, all are recognised in various degrees in the bookkeeping community.

3, No, if you dont know what the computerised software is doing you will end up in a mess. All of these qualifications have both manual and computerised for a reason.

4, The only advice i would give here, as obviously i work for one, is to search the forums, and ring the main ones up, ask to speak to a tutor and see if it feels right for you. Check what software they offer, check that you can get phone and email support when you want etc. Others will no doubt give valuable advice as to this. However, there is one company you should avoid, it wont take you long to search the forum to find out who!

5, That is entrirely personal, i set up in practice the moment i was AAT qualified, some people like to work for/under someone else for a few years but this is entirely personal. There is no right and wrong answer. However, when starting out try to avoid taking on work that you don't feel 100% confident about

Spamkebab · Expert

Hi Nick

Did you have much in the way of work experience when you first set up?

Either way, you are among the many on this forum deserving of my admiration.

It would be a dream come true for me to land a position that offered ACA training especially an AAT fastrack course.

Very scarce around these parts.

Cheers

Neil.

lozi · Member

Thanks Nick, im looking at http://www.openstudycollege.com/bookkeeping_courses.html I cant seem to find IAB computer courses only ICB, this has been the same with other websites, are you able to advise of a best place to look.
Thanks

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi Lozi,

If you are specifically looking for IAB Computerised Bookkeeping services there is Groves Training Services, www.grovestrainingservices.com, run by a member of the IAB Council.

Hi Neil, when I first set up i had been working for a company preparing management for farmers and as part of going through their books I also did their VAT returns, so i had done some bookkeeping initially but it was a big step (and a steep learning curve) from doing that to doing Ltd company accounts and tax returns in the real world as opposed to the perfect world in my AAT studies.

There are many on this forum to be fair deserving admiration, none more so that our moderator!

Getting the ACA contract wasn't too bad, it was the years of working in an accountancy practice, having to account for every minute of every day so i was able to bill it too someone which was the hard part!

lozi · Member

Thanks again Nick, looking at the website you just provided, Do I have to complete levels 1 2 and 3 in manual before starting computerised levels or where can I jump from too?

Peasie · Expert

lozi wrote:
Thanks again Nick, looking at the website you just provided, Do I have to complete levels 1 2 and 3 in manual before starting computerised levels or where can I jump from too?

My own personal opinion is do the manual levels before doing the computerised side of things.

If you do the manual it will help you better uinderstand why you are doing things in the computerised way. When I did ICB I did

Manual I

Manual II

Computerised II

Manual III

Computerised III

(there is no computerised I)

lozi · Member

Thanks Peasie, from your experience can I ask ICB how far did that get you? as I still cant decide on ICB and IAB

Peasie · Expert

To be honest, I don't know what difference there is between the two.

I know the exams are (or were at the time) able to be taken at any time with the ICB. They are taken at the same place you do your driving theory tests so can book them at any time of the year rather than just twice a year. Maybe IAB has on demand now as well although I have never seen any mention of them doing this.

I've just continued on from there doing the Self Assessment exam, then payroll. And now Level IV.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Depends where you want to go with the qualification Lauren.

ICB is excellent for going down the self employment path as is IAB.

Where IAB wins is that the qualification is more widely recognised for exemptions if you want to move up the tree.

IAB and IFA have quite an incestuous little relationship that admitely over time has grown further appart but you still find that IAB people quite often move up to becoming IFA accountants.

Just do a search of this site (I use google with the search criteria "site:www.book-keepers.org.uk -mobile" followed by the search criteria which in this case I would say if "iab icb aat frauke james" but play around with the search and you will get some excellent results that will lead you down paths that you hasn't even thought to look at.

kind regards,

Shaun.

TRAINING LINK · Senior Member

Hi

As far as ICB are concerend as from April this year students will not be able to complete computerised exam in level 2 and 3 unless the manual counterpart has been completed first.

Dave

YLB-HO · Guru

I think I heard my name mentioned!!!!

I have worked with a lot of bookkeepers (and people who call themselves accountants, who know nothing about bookkeeping) over the last 25+ years and discovered that most computer litererate people who study Manual bookkeeping can figure out how to use any bookkeeping software, whereas bookkeepers who have only studied computerised bookkeeping using only one particular software can only do bookkeeping using that software.

Peasie · Expert

TRAINING LINK wrote:
Hi

As far as ICB are concerend as from April this year students will not be able to complete computerised exam in level 2 and 3 unless the manual counterpart has been completed first.

Dave

That makes sense. It was different before as you could choose which road you went down - manual or computerised. But now you have to complete both it does make sense to do the manual first.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

But hasn't it always been the case that you have to complete level I manual before moving on to level II (although previously that could be either manual or computerised).

Also, to get a practice certificate at AICB you had to hold both the manual and computerised bookkeeping qualifications at level II (that was the big change in 2010 as prior to that people would do level I manual, level II computerised and then set up in practice without ever actually having to attend an exam).

Personal view is that the ICB make it too easy to get from nothing to practice which devalues the qualification by setting the bar too low.

If training companies keep churning out the volumes of ICB qualified people that they are then the flooded mark will see non of them working in either employed or self employed capacities.

Thats nothing against the training companies that are doing a good job of giving people a firm grasp of the tools of the trade. Its just purely an observation of the rules of supply vs demand.

If the ICB do not raise the bar by demanding at least AAT level experience requirements then to my mind they will implode on the back of a qualification that leads to nothing due to the number of people with the same qualification.

Rhianrach · Expert

Spamkebab wrote:
Hi Nick

Did you have much in the way of work experience when you first set up?

Either way, you are among the many on this forum deserving of my admiration.

It would be a dream come true for me to land a position that offered ACA training especially an AAT fastrack course.

Very scarce around these parts.

Cheers

Neil.

Try the NHS Neil, I've just seen one the other day for a postgrad/studying AAT bod for a finance position in your area.

Spamkebab · Expert

Got an NHS account set up Steve.

I keep on looking, never saw that advert though, cheers Steve.

TRAINING LINK · Senior Member

Stats on the amount of small to medium companies there are compared to the amount of Bookkeepers/Accountants there are show there are plenty of opportunities to gain employment regardless of with an employer or self-employed. ICB made the changes in September 2011 and as I am sure you will agree the qualification is only part of the issue, this is the same wether someone has AAT, ICB, IAB or any other body for that matter. What you do with your qualification once gained is just as important as the qualification itself. We have many students who have gained ICB qualifications running successful practices. For me the ICB improve and go from strength to strength every year and if they didnt I would be the first on here to say so.

Dave

Rhianrach · Expert

Spamkebab wrote:
Got an NHS account set up Steve.

I keep on looking, never saw that advert though, cheers Steve.

http://www.jobs.nhs.uk/showvac/oL_36W/3112490/913047888

Hopefully that should link straight to it.

lozi · Member

Can anyone list of sites that provide AAT homestudy? Thanks

Spamkebab · Expert

Yeah i did see that one. I'm not an undergraduate looking for a work placement scheme unfortunately lol.

I wish i was 20 years younger sometimes, oh what i'd give to be young free and stupid again.

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi Lozi,

the people who provide distance learning for the AAT are in the following link:

http://www.aat.org.uk/qualifications/distance-learning/correspondence-and-online-courses

Rhianrach · Expert

Spamkebab wrote:
Yeah i did see that one. I'm not an undergraduate looking for a work placement scheme unfortunately lol.

I wish i was 20 years younger sometimes, oh what i'd give to be young free and stupid again.

Oh sorry didn't look into it that far, just saw Manchester and thought screw that :)

Spamkebab · Expert

Yeah well, thanks for getting my hopes up and all that, yeah, thanks for nowt Steve lol.

Rhianrach · Expert

Spamkebab wrote:
Yeah well, thanks for getting my hopes up and all that, yeah, thanks for nowt Steve lol.

All in a days work. :)

Spamkebab · Expert

I've applied anyhoo. I am a student if you count the 'Dark Arts'

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi Lozie, if you got to level 3 ICB/IAB you could come in at level 3 in the AAT. You will be fine with the accounts preperation within the AAT with your previous studies but the ICB and IAB do not contain any managment accounts ,so this needs to be covered from level 3 upwards. It is generally OK to skip the level 2 costing units but without doing the level 3 costing units you will struggle at level 4.

We had an ICB tutor who insisited that they come on at level 4 rather than level 3 and they really struggled, and eventually gave up. There is alot to be said for putting the ground work in and not skipping the basics.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Bit of a misnomer thinking in terms of exemptions in that there is something called the AAT skillscheck to determine the level that one would start at and whether you come to the table from the IAB or ICB you should have pretty much the same level of knowledge that would see you start AAT at level III rather than II.

For exemptions a good yardstick is the ACCA exemptions database.

the first three ACCA papers are quite different to the others and are pretty much the equivalent of the entirety of the ACCA foundations in accountancy qualification.

You could get exemption from all three foundation level papers of the professional level if you attained MAAT.

If you were MIAB you would get exemption from papers FA1 and FA2 of the Foundations in Accountancy qualification and the criteria are deemed acceptable for registration as a student on the professional qualification (but no exemptions would be awarded).

If you were ICB then it is not regarded as a suitable level to registerer as a student of the ACCA. You do however get exemption from paper FA1 on the foundations on accountancy.

I appreciate that you are not looking att he ACCA but I'm just using the ACCA exemptions database as a yardstick by which to judge the levels of the others and the yardstick would suggest that IAB is the better option.... Of course, such does not allow for the internal bargaining of the various bodies where exemptions re not always representitive of the undrlying knowledge base.

As an example, an AAT qualified person can fasttrack to ACA but an ACCA person could not unless they use their ACCA qualification to gain exemptions from AAT to get on the fast track.

You will get used to the fact that this businesss is as much about bargaining and satisficing as it is about base knowledge.

Lets face it, beneath the freindly veneer and hollow alliances the various bodies really just don't like each other very much and we're all just the pawns in a big power game.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Good answer Nick.

sorry, mine took a bit too long to write and I missed two posts whilst I was doing it.

Rhianrach · Expert

Spamkebab wrote:
I've applied anyhoo. I am a student if you count the 'Dark Arts'

A post graduate from the university of hard knocks.

Spamkebab · Expert

Just call me Annie.

Have you filled out an application for the NHS? what a pain in the snow globes that is. Once done though it retains your info.

I think they only employ AATers who were once black cab drivers judging by the advert.

Spamkebab · Expert

lol i would have had to turn that down. I'm up for a slight decrease in salary due to a kind of semi career change but

i couldn't drop that much.

Their loss if you ask me Steve.