How old do people have to be to study AAT - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

How old do people have to be to study AAT

rachel_mclean · Guru

Not sure but I've just googled and the CAT (from ACCA website) it's 16.
http://www.bia.org.bw/acca.php

Spamkebab · Expert

Just posted on the AAT forums Shaun. I thought you had to be 37-38ish lol.

I'll email a tutor too, let you know if i find out anything. What a grand birthday present this would be.

Don't tell me he's thinking of starting at level 3, chip off the old block.

I think you need to gee him up to sign up to this forum! i could do with the extra help.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

lol, he would definitely start at level 2 or the AAT bookkeeping qualification if he decides to go ahead with this.

At the moment I fear that he may not be seeing past the rewards to the amount of work that this involves.

If he's adamant about it though it would definitely be a great start for him no matter what he eventually ends up doing.

Spamkebab · Expert

I'd rather my kids had left school with A levels and an AAT qualification than try and scrape something later on in life after studying a degree.

I hear Tesco are now hiring graduates, seems there are empty shelves. My brother works for the Halifax and he said that 2 of the tellers have

law degrees.

I can't make up my mind whether going to uni is any good or not, i never had the opportunity yet my sister did. She married a good all American boy

about 3 years ago, lives in Colorado where her degrees are worthless and is currently enroled with one of their universities re-studying lol.

Ahhhh Karma hehe (I love her really)

YLB-HO · Guru

I may be wrong, but at the back of my mind I understand that 70% of the UK most successful Entrepreneurs never went to University.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

With some of the numptee's with degree's that have worked for me in the past I can believe that statistic.

That said, with or without a degree the one's that I have known that have made something of themselves you could see from the outset where they were going with or without a bit of paper.

The issue in industry is that some companies will not even interview people who do not have a degree... And certain consultancies take that a stage further and will only interview people from certain universities.

The Alumini of the top consultancies are specifically engineered to ensure that tose leaving the company will be those most likely to end up in positions of authority of the firms large enough to be hiring those same consultancies and for that reason the big four and the management consultancies go to great lengths to keep on the good side of their ex employee's.

If only all business had such long term views!

Peasie · Expert

Shamus wrote:
p.s. I'm not a cruel father. If he didn't want this it's not a direction that I would push him in.

Of course - reading accounting text to young children to send them to sleep isn't cruel.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Darn it you have a good memory Peasie.

Yes, I admit that before he could talk I used to read him ACCA manuals as bedtime stories.

He got a story. I got revision. win - win.

Now he seems to like the idea of AAT.... I'm sensing no conicidence here and perhaps those two things are not as segregated in reality as in my mind!

StuartW · Member

Hi Shamus,

I've spoken to a colleague at AAT to try and get some clarification on this for you. As I understand it, while AAT is not generally aimed at learners younger than 16 there are exceptions to this. I've certainly heard of pupils studying AAT while at school.

Essentially it may come down to individual training providers, and how willing they are to accept a younger student. As a first step I'd suggest your son register for AAT Skillcheck, which will help gauge his skill level.

If his competency suggests he's ready for Level 2, perhaps speak to some training providers in your area (there's always distance learning, but younger students generally require more tutor attention). If he's not ready for Level 2 it might be worth looking for training providers who offer AAT Access, which is AAT's Level 1 qualification aimed at school-leavers.

Sorry my advice is a little vague, but I hope it's of some help...

Stuart Waterman

AAT Online Community Manager

Spamkebab · Expert

Hi Stuart,

I think the problem is knowing whether AAT would allow him to sit the exam, believe me when i say that the young fellow won't

be short of study materials or tuition lol.

I would also wager that he knows better jokes than these lot too.

Neil

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Many thanks for the advice Stuart.

I think that I'm going to get him up to speed first to ensure that he is really commited to the idea but if he is then I think that the suggested AAT access would be a fine start point.

I'm a firm believer that people should take the qualifications slowly and learn them properly rather than rushing to a bit of paper without the ingraining of the knowledge base.

I think that starting him gently at level I would ensure that he does not get out of his depth which could at this stage cause him to lose interest which would be a shame as he seems so eager at the moment.

Right, I think Nick over at Premier does that one via distance learning. I'll check that course out for him.

many thanks again for the input,

Shaun.

EagleEducation · Senior Member

Hello Stuart!!! We really can't hide anywhere on the T'internet can we? lol

Clare Cooper knows the answer to this question Stuart as I asked her a long time ago and I can't remember the answer. I have a vague memory of something related to parental guidance and QCF guidance.

Hi Shaun

I believe young people should attend a classroom course to undertake AAT at this age for many reasons. It's not just about technical support at this age.

In my experience, and my personal opinion, I prefer people to be older to fully benefit from their training. When I was at school in the black and white days (well dodgy colour days) they introduced a bookkeeping course as an experiment and amost 100 percent failed. I vividly remember writing out cheque after cheque in the way I was taught how to do it, but it had little meaning to me. I went to college after school (one day a week) and studied more accounting and it was like learning Russian. In my opinion, it was because I had no experience of business life and I couldn't at all relate what I was learning to real life. I passed with merit - but that's only because I rote learned what I needed to know to pass the exams. When I returned to study AAT in my 20's it's like I'd never studied accounting ever and I had work experience!

Will you be able to give him work experience so it's meaningful?

Yes AAT is a fabulous opportunity but I think with all qualifications we have to think about the outcome of the training, not just the `qualification` as you have said.

As I said - it's my personal opinion.

It's absolutely fabulous that parents support young people at this age. I remember taking my girls to connections at the age of 14 and being turned away and practically being told I shouldn't even be thinking about careers at that age! I think, as parents, we need to ensure we're not putting pressure on young people. We want the best for them, and it is untentional but we do do it because we can see the bigger picture. They are under so much pressure anyway these days. My girls are now 18 and 21 and when I look back I know they needed to give their full attention to GCSEs and then their choice which was to do A Levels. It's important to be careful not to indulge in a current desire to the detriment of GCSEs. What I mean is.....they change their minds like the wind and parents are always to blame when things go wrong. Say in the last year they decide to be a doctor but to much attention has been paid to one subject?

You can spread the butter too thin if you know what I mean!

I speak from my experience. My 21 year old still changes her mind like the wind! But she has A levels behind her (only just - through lots of traumatic tantrums, nagging and arguments) so at least now she has options.

I hope that helps somewhat! Good luck with whatever you decide.

Sonya

NickCraggs · Guru

Hi,

The AAT access course is a really good place to start, however, i dont think there is that much difference in diffuclty between that and the new bookkeeping qualificiation, which is the first two units of level 2.

I agree with Sonya's point about people changing their minds, and it is far better to have good A levels etc. However, is it too dissimilar to learning a musical instrument in your spare time, or doing the Duke of Edinburgh Award.

The good thing about distance learning compared to college is that when you do come to something more pressing, such as GCSEs you can put your course on hold and then pick it up when you are ready. Most colleges would follow the same academic time table as schools so you would just be increasing the pressue on yourself by adding extra exams, that is if you could get out of school to go to college.

With generalising too much though, 14 years struggle with the motivation and discipline required for distance learning, but i am sure Shaun's son would have a good mentor!

And a bit of real world experience (and extra pocket money) may well be all it takes to "bring the subject to life".

I am aware how cheesy that last line sounds, but i couldnt think of a better way to say it!

-- Edited by NickCraggs on Wednesday 6th of March 2013 10:20:10 AM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Many thanks Stuart.

Thats absolutely brilliant.

Its great to have an AAT insider on the site. If you have a look around you will see that the qualification is always being pushed here so would be great if you decided to become more of a permanent fixture around here to offer your words of wisdom to the many who are undecided between the bookkeeping qualifications and AAT.

Just have a look around the site at the number of times that people come here looking at ICB but change to AAT where their goal is ultimately employment.

We have James Carter from the ICB on the site (although he's not been on for a while), Frauke Golding who often represents the IAB's position espechially where the ICB is being put forwards as the defacto choice, and people such as Nick, Sonya and lil ol me who makes sure that people at least know that the AAT (or on occassion ACCA) is a viable option for them.

I look forwards to your contributions on the site Stuart,

kindest regards,

Shaun.

-- Edited by Shamus on Wednesday 6th of March 2013 12:04:04 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Cheers Nick and Sonya,

some excellent advice from you both there.

I think that I'm falling more into Nicks way of thinking in that for my boy if he decided to pursue this he does have an office and a tutor already combined with him doing this in to his own pace so a distance learning solution or just using the books without a training package would be the way for him to go.

That he can dip in and out of this mixed with his school studies makes it the perfect solution for his summer recess when he's normally sat there in the office.

I was chatting with a client about this whole thing yesterday and the clients children go to private school where apparently accountancy is taught as a core subject whereas in state schools it's not even an option. That opened up the whole other area of paying privately for Peter to do GCSE accounting as just because his school doesn't do the right subjects does not mean that he has to be restricted by what they are willing to teach.

Taking this approach he's doing the study equivalent to low level AAT and getting a good quality GCSE. If he decides to pursue this further then he's got the knowledge base to launch into AAT properly at which time distance learning is going to be perfect for him. Also, by then he's going to be around 16 so no issues over taking AAT exams.

Sounds as though this chat has developed into a plan.

Many thanks for everyone's input on this. I'll also make sure that he too passes on his gratitude once he's running the ICAEW. lol

kindest regards,

Shaun.

StuartW · Member

Hi, just to follow-up - if Peter were to start at Level 2 he would need to fill in a specific registration form for younger students, which I've attached just in case. If he starts at Level 1 however I understand he can complete the standard registration form.

All the best with your plan!

Stuart

PS: @Sonya - I'm not stalking you, honest!

Princess · Senior Member

I think it's a great idea. My son is still KS1 but is already saying he wants to be a part of my business. He loves maths and is brilliant at it. If the enthusiasm continues I will start him working for me asap eg sorting receipts into date order or whatever he can do at the appropriate age. Ready made part time job for him, little helper for me. I would have loved to have had that opportunity when I was younger.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Downside is though Princess that my boy now comes up to me, quotes things unprompted and expects an advance on his pocket money, lol.

Yesterday he cornered me and quoted creation of a legal contract requires Offer, Acceptance and Consideration.

Then to continued into to be sued under a contract requires an enforcable duty of care to have existed, the duty to have been breached and loss to have resulted.

Proud as punch that he can now quote that off the top of his head his next line was... So Dad. Can I have £10 on my steam account?... My God, the exchange rate is coming in at about 50p a memorised word!

Oh well, I'm as proud of him that he's memorising these things even if he is going to bankrupt me! (he got the £10 by the way).

Shaun.

StuartW · Member

@Shamus Happy to help! Yes, I know there are quite a few AAT advocates on here, which is obviously great to see - I've seen your name pop up numerous times! I actually came by this thread through the (auto?) post that went on to Twitter.

I'm keen to get more AAT folk involved in online conversations such as those you host here. I'd be interested to know if there are particular recurring questions/topics that could benefit from 'official' AAT input - I don't want to intrude on peer support/recommendations, but I know from our forums that sometimes people need a definitive answer.

Anyway, I don't know if this is something you'd want to address here and now or not, but I can also be reached at stuart.waterman[at]aat.org.uk!

Cheers,

Stuart

Princess · Senior Member

I don't give pocket money but I do reward achievements. £1 for full marks in spelling tests, £1 for each new swimming badge etc. I stupidly said one day that he could have £1 for every length he swam to try and get him practising his swimming. I was anticipating 5 lengths. During the first 5 lengths he worked out how many pounds he needed to buy the Wii game he wanted and 32 lengths later I was regretting my offer.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Brilliant Princess. Crying with laughter with that one as I can so relate to it.

Amanda · Expert

I wouldn't give my youngest £1 for full marks on spelling, as each week without even learning them he gets them all right, (better speller than me). 2 years ago I offer him a £5 if he scored a goal in his football matches, well once he came very close to scoring 2, but fortunately just missed so I was relieved as my money was safe, and then this season when I thought maybe he had forgotten or he wouldn't score he scored a goal, so when he came home he had great delight in telling me that I owed him £5! I did pay up! But told him that it was only the once.

I certainly wouldn't offer him £1 per length when he swims as hes really good and did 120 lengths (3000 mtrs) for a badge and was only 9 years old when he did it!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Stuart,

great to have you on board.

the main recurring issue relates to people being told by some training companies (not the regulars on here) that if they get to AICB or Sage certification then they are guaranteed £30k per annum with lots of employers crying out for them.

We try to put them onto the straight and narrow and point them in the direction of the right qualification for what they are looking to achieve which in some cases is ICB / IAB but is just as likely to be AAT or ACCA.

The other issue that occurs quite often is people trying to get to where they want to be as quickly as possible assuming that they do a course and then they are an accountant.

Sometimes it's obvious that people could happily skip level II but other times their enthusiasm to reach the finish line by claiming as many exemptions as possible means that they may never get there.

Basically every back story is different meaning that we are never able to just point a new poster at an old post.

Its going to be great to have someone from the AAT keeping an eye on the answers given as I am sure that on occassion we have given advice based on old knowledge that may no longer be valid.

As a footnote, it might be worth noting that although the site is called the bookkeepers forum we have a lot of members on here who are ICAEW, ACCA, CIMA, IFA, AIA, AAT, etc. So, basically just a freindlier version of Accountingweb where on one hand we try to fill the knowledge gap between qualification and practice. And on the other hand we try to ensure that people make the right choices when just starting along their path to qualification.

looking forwards to chatting soon,

kind regards,

Shaun.

EagleEducation · Senior Member

I believe you Stuart hehehehehe.

Shaun,

What you have just said is an issue we deal with on a daily basis during enquiry stage at eagle and it's extremely frustrating. Somedays it feels like we are fire fighting against customers demands and expectations. For example, it's shocking the amount of people that come with, let's say, a degree or masters degree in an unrelated subject and `demand` to start at level 4 because they're highly qualified. We're also seeing an increasing number of people come with qualifications from overseas now and some of them from the 80's / 90's and they expect to start at level 4 too.

Just imagine if you employed someone with a level 4 accounting qualification and then discovered they didn't know how to process an invoice, a credit note, a BACS payment or do a bank rec! Believe me, I've experienced this and learnt a VERY valuable lesson many years ago.

In my personal opinion organisations have to recognise their responsibility in NOT always giving the customer what they want. By doing that you're in danger of not achieving your objectives. That's assuming your objectives are in the customer's interests of course! Are we creating the the right culture or work ethic by pandering to customer's demands?

In my opinion a qualification should be the end result of good quality training and development.

At eagle we're very much - this is what you need to know to do this job - can you do that - if you can't then you have to start at this level. We lose customers as a result, they go elsewhere, but we stand by what we believe.

It's a very competitive market out there now and people need to consider that employers have the pick of the bunch. In my opinion people need to consider how their training and development and career plan looks on their CV to potential employers. I've share feedback from employers about this in here before.

Better stop rambling now... Good night!

Sonya

Spamkebab · Expert

Sooo.......about this 30 grand...

I take it it's not happening?

30 grand? am i kidding myself, i can't even land a role at 14 because competiton is so fierce.

Oh and i'm a prat at interview :)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Neil,

Yes, it's a difficult market not helped by the flood of CV's hitting managers / recruiters desks everyday.

A good interviewer will see past interview performance... Just look at those who get through the interview stage on the apprentice!

The issue is the number of applicants for the number of jobs.

Just getting your CV read is a major achievement so the fact that you are getting interviews or even just responses to applications is a huge tick in your favour.

For any where you do get to interview but do not get the job write to the potential employer stating that you were very disappointed not to get the role as you really wanted to work with their company, could you give me any pointers as to how I could improve my potential for gaining a role if one becomes available in the near future.

Always include a stamp addressed envelope.

Never write to people where you did not get to interview.

Expect maybe a 10% return on your letters from companies who have interviewed you but whether there was a return or not that letter may eventually get your foot in the door.

Write again after six months saying that you were interviewed for x job for which there were unfortunately more suitable candidates, point out new skills acquired since interview (for employers who reply to interview feedback ensure that all points from their feedback are covered in your additional experience) and ask whether any similar roles have become available.

Getting your foot in the first door is the main issue. Once you are through then you are on the ladder both within that company and the wider business community as its experience to back up the bits of paper that really matters but of course there's the big catch 22.

Good luck with the continued search matey... I may have to open offices in Manchester just so that I get the opportunity to employ you!... Actually, better not, that's Tim's area. Last thing I want is to end up starting a turf war in an area where semi automatic weaponry is so easy to acquire. lol. Tim, the Godfather of Salford. Has a sort of ring to it doesn't it.

All the best and don't stop trying. You will succeed in finding that elusive position,

kind regards,

Shaun.