There are training providers on here who may be able to offer some assistance in the course marking so I'll leave that part of the question to them.
I'll take the second one :
how many of these (expensive) courses do you need to do before you are a qualified bookkeeper/accountant?
It never actually stops.
Once qualified you need to maintain your qualification via CPD (continued professional development) in order for your knowledge to stay fresh and CPD courses can also be expensive
That said, the course that you have already purchased seems very expensive for level II.
For a price list of prices that you should be expecting to pay for distance learning go to either Premier Training or Eagle education websites. In fact, if you look at the Premier AAT page that gives some really good breakdowns including each module, exam fee's, AAT fee's etc.
The question about bookkeeper/accountanty with AAT is one that does actually cause much debate. The qualification does qualify you as an accountant but it's a profession entry level qualification.
Many clients expect bookkeepers to basically be cheaper accountants and self employed AAT people fill that role really well as well as being the work force behind many a sucessful accountancy practice.
However, tell an ACCA or ICAEW person that you are a qualified Accountant with an AAT qualification and be prepared for serious fallout.
It's a brilliant qualification. Obtainable in 18 months to 3 years and if taken seriously both in practice and industry.... Still no guaranteee of a job but its a good foundation to build upon.
To my mind to call yourself an accountant you need to look at ACCA and be prepared to devote your entire life to study for 7-10 years (and thats why ACCA people have difficulty calling AAT people accountants).
As an aside, as for searching the site just use google with this search :
site:www.book-keepers.org.uk -mobile
then follow that with the keywords that you are interested in such as AAT without training provider
The above said, that you have not started the course yet sounds as though you might benefit from the motivation of a training provider who pushes for reaching certain goals by certain times in order to keep you focused.
Sure that you have your reasons for the course lapsing but if such was serious for future reference most training providers will allow you to defer course start dates to a later date.
If onthe other hand you are like myself and your house is never as clean and tidy as when you should be studying then you either need a training provider who will motivate you or an achievable plan with set goals that you are able to keep to.
Kind regards and welcome to the forum,
Shaun.
p.s. edited because I questioned which level the course was having missed completely until pointed out by Nick that it was level II (cheers Nick... At those prices I'm thinking HLC).
-- Edited by Shamus on Tuesday 12th of March 2013 01:21:26 PM
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Hi - Sorry if this topic has occurred before - 50 pages of topics is a lot to read through :)! I signed up for an AAT bookkeeping and accounting course to level II a while ago and never really got started. I payed a lot for it and I may not even be able to extend my support (which would cost a few more hundred pounds) as a few months have elapsed since the support ended. I'm told I can still study the course and sit exams as long as I am a member of AAT (not at the moment), but that I will need a training provider to mark computerised assessments. How does that work? How, other than through the original provider, can I find a training provider just to mark assessments? Trying to avoid having to pay for the entire course again, which, at a local college costs around £1k. As an additional question, how many of these (expensive) courses do you need to do before you are a qualified bookkeeper/accountant? I already have an SHND (part of this is in accounts) and a Degree so there is no chance I will get any funding. Many thanks to anyone taking the time to help.
have you tried to explain why you didn't quite get started. If a student has a valid reason for a delay we normally extend our support, as to be fair, the training provider has had money for doing nothing.
If you want to self study there are only a few exams that you need a training provider to mark for you, which are only level 3, Spreadsheets and at level 4, ICAS. All of level 2 you can just sit at exam centres on your own so you maybe dont have too much of a problem at the moment. you have the books, but if your training provider will not support you, you will have to self study (unless obvously you buy an entire new course) but lots of people do this at level 2 with success.
On a side note £1k for level 2, if that is what you paid is a lot of money for this.
Good answer from Shaun there.
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
Thank you very much Shaun - all questions answered. I am with one of the training providers mentioned - good to know they are one of the ones I should be with. The local college wasn't really the route for me as well as being more expensive. I understand exactly what you're saying about the distinction between bookkeeper/accountant. I should be in a hurry as I'm 49. Looking to start up a small business offering admin and bookkeeping/accounting, but want to start small. If I can get past the double entry, I'm sure I'll be fine. I've been told I can have a 12 month extension for a few hundred pounds (a lesson learned). Time to just bite the bullet and get on with it - re housework, a bit like you :).
Hi Nick - I didn't pay £1k, but I noticed the fee for the same course at the local college is billed at £900 to £1k. By the time I've paid for the extra 12 months it will be £1k! I know it's just the start. I will need a job to pay for it :). I wasn't contacted very much during my "active" course, so won't expect it this time either. I have lots of other things going on and need to clear a space in my head to do this - unfortunately, nothing that could be viewed as a valid excuse :). If I can get to grips with double entry, I think I will be fine. Thanks for all your help.
If a student has a valid reason for a delay we normally extend our support, as to be fair, the training provider has had money for doing nothing.
Hi Nick (NOT JANET)
I have to disagree with your comment massively. When students purchase a course they enter into a contract which is an agreement for resources and support to be provided for a set period of time. At eagle the period of time is currently 2 years per level compared to many training providers where you're expected to complete within 1 year. We currently give 2 year's support to allow for contingencies so to speak.
When students purchase a course from eagle they are contributing towards the massive amount of time and expertise we put into creating our own resources that are available for them to use during the contract and the continuous development of those, as well as published texts and an abundance of general guidance and advice. The portion allocated for tutors to be available as and when customers would like assistance is actually a very small contribution.
I pay professionals to be available for those students during the contractual period. It's up to the customer to full take advantage of a service that's available to them, my tutors are certainly not sitting around `doing nothing`.
When I worked in further education if you didn't show up or you didn't achieve within 36 weeks you had to pay for the whole year again. Another example, I've paid for a gym membership for the last year that I've not used - should they extend my membership for free? Or, a student purchases their AAT membership but doesn't sit any exams - should AAT extend it for free?
Considering that though we are not heartless - I've had a number of students who are battling cancer and still trying their best to achieve their qualification. Under these circumstances we do negotiate and I'm pleased to say one of my students achieved level 4 last week.
To summarise training providers are running businesses, not charities and to be fair to training providers we should be managing expectations carefully.
I've encountered scenario's before where students have paid for courses then not been able to study them so the service provider has deferred the course until the student is able to study it.
In such instance the training provider has not lost anything as they will have provided no support until the course is taken.
Surely the two years would only cut in once the course was being studied.
Also, I am reading that as two years elapsed but no more support within that period than if the student had taken the qualification in six months.
The key has to be that the student informs the training provider that they need to take a study holiday during which time the training provider will not invest respources in the student.
Using the AAT arguement the student is purchasing a years membership which is a definitive set period. When one purchases training that is not necessarily tied to a period but rather a qualification and an expected level of support for a student to achieve that qualification.
I am not saying that students should be able to extend support forever. You are a business and the student has paid for a set level of support. Anything beyond that you are making a loss.
What I am saying is that for any service based industry there needs to be an element of flexibility around the students needs which may mean deferment of the course beyond the original support period.
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I think it's fair to say that, if you buy a course over a set period, it is expected you will do that course in that time. The time given by Eagle is generous and I don't think they can be faulted in that regard. I fully agree that, if someone has a pressing reason, then a flexible approach is appreciated. In my case, I am a busy Mum, I run a girlguiding unit, I am a landlord (no big fish) with intermittent busy periods and I have far too many absorbing hobbies for my own good which include genealogy and gardening and I must be completely mad contemplating studying again at my age :)! I am fortunate in that I have not had any illness more serious than a bad cold and no close members of my family are ill, debilitated or have recently died and because I am honest I wouldn't try to pretend otherwise. I can't pretend either that I yet fully understand the AAT assessment and exam system and was hoping not to incur too much extra cost for a course I should have completed long ago. In being allowed to continue for 12 months at an agreed cost, I have actually saved a considerable sum against the option of enrolling in a local college (even if it was less expensive, there are other factors that make it a less inviting choice). The advice given to me was very helpful and I really appreciate it, but don't want Sonya to think that she has to defend her position. I don't think there is any need. I weighed up the options available and, given what was offered, felt that it was the best way to go, against going it alone, including finding someone to mark my work and negotiating the AAT exam system. I'm looking forward to getting on with the course - OK, that's a fib - I'm looking forward to getting to the end of it and achieving something :).
This is an interesting debate and without sitting on the fence both Sonya and Nick make valid points but I tend to side with Sonya who is right inasmuch Training Providers are just that, they provide a service, materials and support for a set period of time this is why Training Link do not send out multi courses all at once but one level at a time as we understand life can get in the way and we allow our students to put their training on hold for a limited period of time as we as individuals never know when adversity will strike. We also extend support for 6 months should a student have ran out of time for only £55 but regardless of this it is up to the paying student to be fully aware of their Training Providers terms and condidtions before paying out for any course and using the "Well I didnt Realise" excuse should the course not be completed in the allotted time.
"For"... lol Sonya. With the exception of a couple of psueo employments I gave that game up back in 1990.
I almost worked with a training company on a project last year but that one didn't go anywhere.
As the people in this business all seem so nice maybe I should think about starting my own training division to my business? That would sort out my understanding of the business.
Are Eagle quaking in fear of their profits yet, lol
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
There will be plenty of people who complete the course far quicker than the support that they have bought, they don't get a refund for the support that they have not used, so there should be plenty of slack to help other students out. For example, we had a student who completed levels, 2, 3 and 4 in 11 months, she had paid for support that would have lasted years, but obviously she didn't need it. This extra allows us to offer more support to those who are struggling.
It would be quite hard to say to a student that has found a course hard, but has worked really put a lot of effort in, but has taken their time, that although they have completed 4 of 6 units, that there time is up, and they need to pay for more further support.
The extension of our tutor support is at our discretion, but we offer tutor support for as long as is needed, for no extra costs, as long as the student is actively working towards the course, whether the delay is due to medical/personal issues or work issues. We believe that working with the students as a team will help them to achieve their goal and is far more important to us especially as a business we want them to re-enrol!
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Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
I think that is exactly the point Nick, if a student has been seen to be working hard but for one reason or another is struggling then of course they should be given extra help and guidance to help them achieve their goals at no extra cost, but on the other hand you get the students who receive their course materials and take no time in reading their course notes and instructions, stick their materials in a draw and get it out 2 years later expecting to be able to continue their studies with the very real possibility that the materials are out of date and their allotted period of support is no longer valid. This is not a marketing opportunity but a very real statistic which does affect I should imagine every Training Provider regardless of subject taught.
There are those who believe that Training Providers only care about profit and maybe for some that is the case, but there has to be guidelines, oh I bought a tin of beans last year stuck it in a cupboard and didnt realise it had a sell buy date and its now out of date, can I exchange it for a free one please? Extreme I know but a valid argument. We send our Terms and Conditions out with our courses and it is up to the consumer to read these as it is when buying insurance, a holiday or any other product for that matter.
"For"... lol Sonya. With the exception of a couple of psueo employments I gave that game up back in 1990.
I almost worked with a training company on a project last year but that one didn't go anywhere.
As the people in this business all seem so nice maybe I should think about starting my own training division to my business? That would sort out my understanding of the business.
Are Eagle quaking in fear of their profits yet, lol
Lol Shaun I dare you!!!! You will end up with huge bags under your eyes and be bald within the year or sectioned lol.
Dave
Ps I write this post in the confined space of my straight jacket
