Quick RTI questions - feel free to add your own. - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Peasie · Expert

Quick RTI questions - feel free to add your own.

Noola · Senior Member

This is a question I have been thinking of too thanks Peasie. Hope someone has the answer. I also have a similar question.

I rang HMRC about this and the woman on the phone started to get very ratty with me thinking I was trying to tell them something saying 'well then YOUR employee would be committing fraud and YOU need to tell us right away or you could be prosecuted'.

My question was: If RTI is to ensure that HMRC know exactly the amount that employees are getting, why is still ok for businesses not to run a PAYE scheme if their staff earn below the LEL. If an employer has staff that all earn below the LEL and doesn't run a PAYE scheme and pays them all in cash, how does the employer and HMRC know that one of their employees is not being paid in the same way for numerous jobs and all in all is getting a nice hefty sum at the end of every week Tax and NI free? Why should HMRC trust an employer to let them know if their staff go above the LEL? How would they ever know?

It just seems like HMRC are contradicting themselves in some areas. Or it might just be me being thick lol.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Nope Noola, your definitely not being thick. My impression is that the people on the coal face at HMRC don't have a clue about RTI.

They have all obviously been briefed from the basis that everyone works to 1950's type arrangements with everything even slightly complicated swept under the carpet.

Combine the RTI links to benefits (which will be messed up) and the changes in council tax from the start of April which people seem to be oblivious to because the bills haven't started dropping on mats yet and I'm not just seeing total collapse but blood on the streets... And that's coming from a conservative!

Sorry, I'm pretty angry at the moment as I had a client in the office just yesterday. Her business isn't doing too well (yet) so she pays herself a low wage. She has one child, no partner and gets tax credits and council tax benefit.

Her business has real potential but it's early days.

I put her details into one of the online calculators and her council tax bill will increase by over 300%!!!

The meeting hit home at myself as well as I currently get the 25% single adult discount and I hadn't realised that that was also disappearing next month!

Where do the government think that fledgling business owners are going to get that sort of money from when every penny is already committed.

sorry, went off topic. I'm just getting very angry at policies that will cause mass unemployment, high inflation, business failure and a rise in home repossessions.

Bah humbug...

Shaun.

Helz · Senior Member

Hi Kay/Shaun

Kay, surely in the situation you're describing, when your employee joined who works elsewhere, he/she will tick that box on their P46 (renamed "starter checklist" for RTI) and due to the BR tax code this will generate you will have to operate a PAYE scheme. Even if you're opting not to use the starter checklist (to be an optional form!), you still have an obligation to get them to declare their employment situation when they join, which would have the same result.
If you are saying that either the employee or employer would withhold this information, then I can understand why HMRC pointed out (correctly) that this is fraud!

Shaun, I'm intrigued by your comment re the single person council tax discount, as I'd not heard this either. Since my council tax bill for next year arrived today, I've had a look through and it certainly still exists round here, and still at 25%. Council Tax Benefit is going and being replaced by Council Tax Support - is it possible that the online calculator has not got all the new details for the new way the benefit is being done?

Helen

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

It is an employers duty to get all new employees to fill in a P46 if no PAYE scheme is currently operating, and to start a PAYE scheme if any employee ticks "C" on the P46. Compliance is the law not an optional extra, and that particular compliance requirement has existed for decades. It has nothing to do with RTI.

-- Edited by Tom McClelland on Friday 15th of March 2013 10:04:03 AM

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

The largest payroll I've been directly involved in controlling had about 50,000 employees, Shaun. (a temp agency in the 1980s, two line-printers churning out about 6,000 temp payslips per week in a cacophonous temperature controlled "clean" room). So pretty big, but there are bigger ones, of course. I've just remembered a little detail. It was paper P14s, boxes and boxes and boxes of them. We told HMRC, "If you want them, you can come and get them" so every year some guys from the tax office would turn up with a hired van and we'd trolley them out, about 4 boxes at a time.

If you start a PAYE scheme mid-year with employees who have previously been paid below LEL to be filed then you can either (a) run through the weeks/months entering their history or (b) fill in totals using whatever PAYE adjustments mechanisms the software has..

-- Edited by Tom McClelland on Friday 15th of March 2013 11:41:26 AM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Helen,

I think that the problem is that each local area now get to make up their own rules rather than the rules being centrally dictated.

To my mind that seems to be a return to the feudal system of tax collection which is going to be a recipe for disaster.

Personally I'm of the mind that council tax (and local councils come to that) should not exist at all. Its a tax that is not based on income but rather the deemed necessities of those demanding it.

At the end of the day why should people go without pensions in order to pay for the pensions of those working in local government.

The whole system is unfair and I'm expecting serious consequences of this when the council start sending the bailiffs in for extortionate bills that people just cannot pay.

If I've lost my discount I'm coming over to live in your area Helen, lol.

all the best,

Shaun.

Noola · Senior Member

Helz wrote:
Hi Kay/Shaun

Kay, surely in the situation you're describing, when your employee joined who works elsewhere, he/she will tick that box on their P46 (renamed "starter checklist" for RTI) and due to the BR tax code this will generate you will have to operate a PAYE scheme. Even if you're opting not to use the starter checklist (to be an optional form!), you still have an obligation to get them to declare their employment situation when they join, which would have the same result.
If you are saying that either the employee or employer would withhold this information, then I can understand why HMRC pointed out (correctly) that this is fraud!

Shaun, I'm intrigued by your comment re the single person council tax discount, as I'd not heard this either. Since my council tax bill for next year arrived today, I've had a look through and it certainly still exists round here, and still at 25%. Council Tax Benefit is going and being replaced by Council Tax Support - is it possible that the online calculator has not got all the new details for the new way the benefit is being done?

Helen

What I meant was, there will be a scenario where the employer doesn't give them a P46 to fill in. The employer would probably think that because their staff earn less than LEL and have been told or heard that they don't need to run a payroll scheme that they don't need to fill any paperwork in either. They can just simply take on an employee on a casual basis paying them by cash and not say a word. HMRC would never know anyway. The employer wouldn't be interested in knowing if the employee has a second job because all they are interested in is the job being done/extra help. And the other employer the employee is working for would possibly work in the same way.

What I'm trying to say is that HMRC's attempt at trying to get a tighter grip of everyone so that they know exactly how much they earn for universal credit purposes, in the scenario above, they would never know about this employee would they? And thousands of others. Especially as its still ok for small businesses not to run a payroll scheme as all staff earn below LEL. This may give employers the impression that all they have to do is pay their staff, and thats it.

Why should HMRC trust that the employer will find out on behalf of them if an employee has a second job? And is the employer really interested?

My point being, I don't think HMRC have thought this through.

Peasie · Expert

What about the original point? Are things backdated to the start of the year or will it not matter and will RTI pick up the year to date figures when that first submission is made?

I don't know why I'm referring to RTI as a specific object.

Noola · Senior Member

Peasie wrote:
What about the original point?

Quick RTI questions - feel free to add your own confuse

Peasie · Expert

Noola wrote:
Peasie wrote:
What about the original point?
Quick RTI questions - feel free to add your own

It was directed at Tom. I was hoping he might still have been around the forum as I was only about 6 minutes after him.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Peasie,

I've downloaded a few payroll programs with the intention of playing around with them but I haven't had the time yet.

IRIS have some interesting information in their RTI user guide.

The scenario that you are looking at would be the equivalent of starting the payroll mid year.

It basically says that if started mid year then you will need to enter all of the year to date figures which makes sense rather than having to go backwards and start from scratch as that would throw up late notification notices .

Here's a link to the IRIS guide which is quite useful : https://small-business-software.iris.co.uk/PDF/IPP_IRIS%20Payroll%20RTI%20Guide_summer_2012.pdf

As always. anything that Tom says about payroll overrides anything that I say.... Bet I've controlled a payroll bigger than anything than Tom (or Sage for that matter) have come across but that doesn't mean that I knew what I was doing from a statutory perspective.... That's quite worrying really isn't it!

Personally I'm not going to be offering RTI services until the dust settles.... same principle that I never instal a new operating system on initial release.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Peasie · Expert

Thanks for that Shaun.

Quite interesting reading in there. Unfortunately it will have to wait until the weekend. Such fun weekends I have now.

Don Tax · Expert

It's to no-ones advantage that the employers in question start requesting PAYE schemes in advance of them being needed.

On page 4 below it says that small employers will be subject to lower penalties and they will only be assessed on a monthly basis to avoid discriminating against weekly payers :-

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/rti_penalties_for_late_filing_late_payment_and_errors.pdf

From that I take it the Revenue will need to ensure that PAYE schemes are issued quickly - say within two weeks.

If an employee makes a U.C. claim then some sort of income declaration will be needed to initiate calculation of the award. I assume that legally the employer's information is secondary to an individuals U.C. claim and therefore a strict 'on or before' RTI system is an unnecessary burden and inherently inaccurate.

Regards,

Tim

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Tom,

from 1979 to 1987 I worked on the Payroll for a Nationalised Industry. At it's height there were just over 400,000 employee's but by the time that I left that had dwindled to 120,000 and if I had hung on much longer it might probably have been just me, lol.

As I say, I could keep the payroll running and knew the basics but from a statutory perspective I didn't have a clue. We just implemented what the business told us that they wanted Payroll to do... Whilst everyone that I worked with knew the systems inside out I don't believe that anyone there had any payroll related qualifications which you would think would be a recipe for disaster but because this was back in the days when knowledge was passed down from generation to generation with the expectation that you would work on the systems from when you join the company to when you retire it actually worked.

Definitely more of an IT rather than Payroll specific role though.

On the Payslips line I remember that there was once that the operators were on strike so management had to look after the machine room (I had just about managed to get my foot on that ladder so guess who got to do the overnight shift). Someone (for once, not me) misloaded the printer and a couple of thousand payslips were cut in half before anyone could stop the machine... Now that was a fun filled night that emptied the stationary cupboard of sellotape!

Sylvia · Veteran Member

The cost of payroll software is going to add up for employers with lots of casual staff. I am just pricing some software for a small restaurant, who in the past have used HMRC Basic payment tools, but will now need to add all the students so need to pay for software. They are going to have to pay over £100 a year, which is a lot for the size of their businesses.

Sylvia

Don Tax · Expert

Hi Sylvia, does that mean the students can't be handled with any in the list of free software providers?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/efiling/paye/paye_software_forms.htm

Thanks, Tim

Don Tax · Expert

Thanks Sylvia, I somehow bet that scenario didn't make it into the HMRC impact assessment and I can see you've looked into this. I don't honestly know why HMRC need to automatically assume someone has left after three months. I hate to be old-fashioned but I'd assume someone had left if a P45 has been issued!

With regard to the employee number, as you say, HMRC are intending to be quite strict about this so the less numbers the better and there may be less risk of inaccuracy if employee numbers are avoided for permanent staff.

The pricing of the various suppliers may evolve to suit these changed circumstances, so hopefully, yours won't be a perennial cost that you've not had to bear before. Having said that, unfortunately, I don't believe that £100 or so, will turn out to be the greatest cost impact of RTI, but an additional one, behind lateness and inaccuracy penalties and the time spent trying to avoid them.

best wishes, Tim

-- Edited by Don Tax on Monday 18th of March 2013 11:37:06 PM

Sylvia · Veteran Member

Students will be treated as normal employees. There is no P38S for them to sign, the student will have to claim any tax paid back at the end of each holiday. This will also mean that each time they leave to go back to uni or college the employers will need to put a leaving date and issue a P45. HMRC have also said that each time your reemploy someone to issue a NEW employee number or their system will get confused!

What this means is that if one student works over the summer, Christmas and Easter holidays they are treated as 3 employees. So the employer will need to buy the more expensive version of any software to set the number of employees. If you know they are going to work the next holiday and you don't issued them a leaving date (they will not be able to claim tax back) and put them down as irregular hours (or HMRC will automatically take them off after 13 or more weeks). But even then it is not difficult for a small restaurant to employ 30+ students in a year - which puts them into the Bureau Edition of 12 Pay.

Sylvia

Peasie · Expert

You've got to laugh.....

Seen over on accountingWEB there's meant to be an announcement later today saying employers with less than 50 employees can make the return once a month rather than weekly (if they have weekly paid employees).
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/article/hmrc-announces-last-minute-rti-ease/539046

ETA : Only for the first six months http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/rti-small-businesses.htm

-- Edited by Peasie on Tuesday 19th of March 2013 11:24:24 AM

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

As a general observation, the number of people coming out of the woodwork with weird and wonderful payroll practices that are being brought out into the harsh light of day by RTI seems pretty high.

I've just had one where the US parent company insists as a matter of Global Policy that employees are paid twice monthly, but on a monthly calculation cycle (first payment for basic pay, second payment is the difference generated by bonuses and overtime etc). Good luck finding low cost payroll software that does that with RTI.

-- Edited by Tom McClelland on Tuesday 19th of March 2013 01:03:58 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

good one Peasie.

Still doesn't get away from the fact though that a lot of accountants are washing their hands of payroll support.

I have absolutely no verifiable statistics to back up that statement just a feeling from the accountants that I speak to who have already sent out letters to clients advising them that due to the change in legislation payroll will no longer be supported from the end of this tax year.

I'm sure that my area cannot be isolated in that approach.

Wonder if they will be looking to retract those letters on the back of the temporary relaxation?

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

Peasie wrote:
You've got to laugh.....

Seen over on accountingWEB there's meant to be an announcement later today saying employers with less than 50 employees can make the return once a month rather than weekly (if they have weekly paid employees).
http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/article/hmrc-announces-last-minute-rti-ease/539046
ETA : Only for the first six months http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/news/rti-small-businesses.htm

-- Edited by Peasie on Tuesday 19th of March 2013 11:24:24 AM

But only until October, and only if they operate a monthly payroll but pay employees weekly, it seems.

Don Tax · Expert

I must have led a sheltered life because I've never run across an employer who pays weekly but processes monthly.

Would be easy enough to switch to that method though, (rather than switching to monthly pay) if it eases the RTI deadlines.

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

Don Tax wrote:
I must have led a sheltered life because I've never run across an employer who pays weekly but processes monthly.

Would be easy enough to switch to that method though, (rather than switching to monthly pay) if it eases the RTI deadlines.

You'd be surprised how many DIYers we've spoken to recently who do exactly that, or even employers who use external services monthly to keep processing costs down but sub the employees regular weekly amounts, and make up the difference when they get the results of the monthly run from their provider.

There's been plenty of conversation about that type of operation on AccountingWeb too.

Don Tax · Expert

Thanks Tom. Yes, subbing regular amounts isn't really in the spirit of RTI to put it mildly!

So this is another 'easement' on top of the postponement of late filing penalties and the 7 day grace for casuals. I'm wondering how many more we might see.

I'm not even going to try to understand the logic of that US calculation cycle. lol

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Tom McClelland wrote:
I've just had one where the US parent company insists as a matter of Global Policy that employees are paid twice monthly, but on a monthly calculation cycle (first payment for basic pay, second payment is the difference generated by bonuses and overtime etc). Good luck finding low cost payroll software that does that with RTI.

You give the impression that the company concerned is quite a large enterprise and companies like that tend to have their own in house payroll function using bespoke software.

Certainly I've never worked with any major company that uses an off the shelf software sollution although that is more likely down to historical factors such as computerising payroll before there were any other options rather than there being anything agaiinst the suppliers of payroll software.

I don't think that the big boys have anything really to worry about with RTI as the whole concept is simply enforcing policies that they have in place already.

The real issue and impact is with the little businesses which despite all of government retoric I really don't think that they care about as small business is not organised to object to anything imposed upon it.

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

Shamus wrote:
Tom McClelland wrote:
I've just had one where the US parent company insists as a matter of Global Policy that employees are paid twice monthly, but on a monthly calculation cycle (first payment for basic pay, second payment is the difference generated by bonuses and overtime etc). Good luck finding low cost payroll software that does that with RTI.
You give the impression that the company concerned is quite a large enterprise and companies like that tend to have their own in house payroll function using bespoke software.
Certainly I've never worked with any major company that uses an off the shelf software sollution although that is more likely down to historical factors such as computerising payroll before there were any other options rather than there being anything agaiinst the suppliers of payroll software.
I don't think that the big boys have anything really to worry about with RTI as the whole concept is simply enforcing policies that they have in place already.
The real issue and impact is with the little businesses which despite all of government retoric I really don't think that they care about as small business is not organised to object to anything imposed upon it.

They're relatively small in the UK and they want to achieve their 2 payments/month on a monthly cycle with low-cost off the shelf software. No way does the budget exist for any development work and there is no UK IT department. The only reason I know about them is that they were asking if 12Pay can fulfil their requirements so we can see where they're coming from in terms of cost.

Yes, large companies (and my impression is that the whole design of RTI was shaped in HMRC discussions with large companies) will find RTI very easy, because they already have rigid payroll procedures, and RTI fits rigid payroll procedures well, usually. And big, simple payrolls (like HMRC's own internal payroll, for example).

Peasie · Expert

Does RTI need to be carried out in the following scenario -

Ltd Co - all employees paid below tax threshold and have no other employment. Does RTI need to be run? I am assuming not (for the time being - or until told otherwise).

Then one employee takes another job - does RTI need to be run and then does it need to be run for ALL employees?

Don Tax · Expert

Hi Peasie, as the NI thresholds are lower than tax, I'd consider the NIN LEL first and the income tax situation second. Thirdly, I'd look at D.O.B. as NI may not apply.

Re. second question. Yes, all employees would need to be on RTI if one does and that also applies for any time you cannot obtain a valid P46 declaration as you'd then need to operate tax code 0T.
Regards,
Tim

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

Don Tax wrote:
Hi Peasie, as the NI thresholds are lower than tax, I'd consider the NIN LEL first and the income tax situation second. Thirdly, I'd look at D.O.B. as NI may not apply.

Re. second question. Yes, all employees would need to be on RTI if one does and that also applies for any time you cannot obtain a valid P46 declaration as you'd then need to operate tax code 0T.
Regards,
Tim

You aren't required to monitor the "other employment" status of your employees. If the employee gives you a P46 with box A or B ticked when they join you then you're covered by that, unless you have demonstrable reason to believe that they were lying when they gave it to you.

Peasie · Expert

Tom McClelland wrote:
Don Tax wrote:
Hi Peasie, as the NI thresholds are lower than tax, I'd consider the NIN LEL first and the income tax situation second. Thirdly, I'd look at D.O.B. as NI may not apply.

Re. second question. Yes, all employees would need to be on RTI if one does and that also applies for any time you cannot obtain a valid P46 declaration as you'd then need to operate tax code 0T.
Regards,
Tim
You aren't required to monitor the "other employment" status of your employees. If the employee gives you a P46 with box A or B ticked when they join you then you're covered by that, unless you have demonstrable reason to believe that they were lying when they gave it to you.

So just to clarify - if at the time you first employ someone they tick box A or B then it does not matter what happens in the future you will not need to operate RTI because of the change in status of this employee. I assume any unpaid tax will then be collected via the tax code of the other employment. And the reporting of this income is down to the employee on their personal tax return?

Don Tax · Expert

Tom's right - if your employee signs A or B you do not need to monitor his employment pattern forever more. If he/she takes another job, HMRC should notify you of any resulting code change. Such a change might impact on your need to deduct tax, and thus comply with RTI.

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

Peasie wrote:
Tom McClelland wrote:
Don Tax wrote:
Hi Peasie, as the NI thresholds are lower than tax, I'd consider the NIN LEL first and the income tax situation second. Thirdly, I'd look at D.O.B. as NI may not apply.

Re. second question. Yes, all employees would need to be on RTI if one does and that also applies for any time you cannot obtain a valid P46 declaration as you'd then need to operate tax code 0T.
Regards,
Tim
You aren't required to monitor the "other employment" status of your employees. If the employee gives you a P46 with box A or B ticked when they join you then you're covered by that, unless you have demonstrable reason to believe that they were lying when they gave it to you.
So just to clarify - if at the time you first employ someone they tick box A or B then it does not matter what happens in the future you will not need to operate RTI because of the change in status of this employee. I assume any unpaid tax will then be collected via the tax code of the other employment. And the reporting of this income is down to the employee on their personal tax return?

Exactly. It is not anyone's job to be a private detective concerning their employee's activities outside that particular employment.

Every employer but the first ought to be deducting tax at BR so the employee is very liekly to overpay PAYE rather than underpay it if all employers follow the rules, which rather adds to the employee's incentive to make sure that HMRC knows the full situation.

Don Tax · Expert

Tom McClelland wrote:
..................................

Every employer but the first ought to be deducting tax at BR so the employee is very liekly to overpay PAYE rather than underpay it if all employers follow the rules, which rather adds to the employee's incentive to make sure that HMRC knows the full situation.

In this case, there would more likely be a balance of allowances, say 254L but Peasie wouldn't need to worry about it if he held a valid P46 declaration. The Revenue would rather avoid Self Assessment if a second job can be handled under PAYE.

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

There cannot be a balance of allowances when the first employer has no PAYE scheme.

Linx · Member

Peasie wrote:
Just a quick RTI question - if it's answered quickly just add your own simple questions after if you wish.

I have a director who is registered as employer for PAYE and I have submitted nil returns for last two years. This year she wants to take a salary payment below the annual personal allowance, before the end of tax year. Do I ask for a completed P46 in the normal way? There will be annualised NI.

Thanks

Don Tax · Expert

Hi Linx,

Yes you need to get a P46 done and filed now they will be paid over the NI. LEL. This sounds like you filed their P45 two years ago otherwise you'd have a P46 already. I don't know exactly where the instruction is on HMRC website for this situation but I would follow the ones toward the bottom of this link, entitled : When and How to Notify HMRC

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/employees/start-leave/new-employee-nop45.htm

Regards,
Tim

Peasie · Expert

When are the details going to show up on the HMRC website?

None of the FPS details I have submitted for any business is showing up on the HMRC website yet. Despite their being a couple of FPS for weekly paid in that time. According to HMRC the details are updated on the 6th and 20th of the month. It's now the 21st but nothing is showing yet. Has the system broken down already or is there a problem with what I have done?

When should I start to worry?

Don Tax · Expert

Peasie wrote:
When are the details going to show up on the HMRC website?

None of the FPS details I have submitted for any business is showing up on the HMRC website yet. Despite their being a couple of FPS for weekly paid in that time. According to HMRC the details are updated on the 6th and 20th of the month. It's now the 21st but nothing is showing yet. Has the system broken down already or is there a problem with what I have done?

When should I start to worry?

Peasie, this is the first I've heard of the details being given on the HMRC site. Is this something that agents cannot access but the business can? like the business tax Dashboard?

I wouldn't worry if you have the Tools / Online Filing / HMRC Filing Log on Moneysoft. Even without the above, I have won penalty appeals on similar evidence when HMRC systems penalised unfairly due to inadequate systems on their part (the first SA deadline in 1998). I would also print out the Employer Summary when prompted, after filing, and with the date and time set to print at the bottom under Setup / Reports / Options.

Regards, Tim

Edit: spelling

-- Edited by Don Tax on Tuesday 23rd of April 2013 07:38:10 AM

Peasie · Expert

The ones I am checking are via their own login details - although they have promised that these details should be available to Agents soon.

It is mainly for one of them, as out of the 25 employees I had to file 10 of them without National Insurance numbers. I only received their details late on the Wednesday and had to file their wages on the Saturday. I was hoping they would have begun the process of getting the NINOs. I've tried the NVR but keep getting told the FPS hasn't been processed yet. That is why I was checking the other ones as well. I'll try again after I have posted this.

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

Peasie wrote:
The ones I am checking are via their own login details - although they have promised that these details should be available to Agents soon.

It is mainly for one of them, as out of the 25 employees I had to file 10 of them without National Insurance numbers. I only received their details late on the Wednesday and had to file their wages on the Saturday. I was hoping they would have begun the process of getting the NINOs. I've tried the NVR but keep getting told the FPS hasn't been processed yet. That is why I was checking the other ones as well. I'll try again after I have posted this.

I wouldn't be holding your breath if I were you.

Peasie · Expert

Tom McClelland wrote:
Peasie wrote:
The ones I am checking are via their own login details - although they have promised that these details should be available to Agents soon.

It is mainly for one of them, as out of the 25 employees I had to file 10 of them without National Insurance numbers. I only received their details late on the Wednesday and had to file their wages on the Saturday. I was hoping they would have begun the process of getting the NINOs. I've tried the NVR but keep getting told the FPS hasn't been processed yet. That is why I was checking the other ones as well. I'll try again after I have posted this.
I wouldn't be holding your breath if I were you.

Does this reply mean that HMRC are having delays in general with RTI?

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

Peasie wrote:
Tom McClelland wrote:
Peasie wrote:
The ones I am checking are via their own login details - although they have promised that these details should be available to Agents soon.

It is mainly for one of them, as out of the 25 employees I had to file 10 of them without National Insurance numbers. I only received their details late on the Wednesday and had to file their wages on the Saturday. I was hoping they would have begun the process of getting the NINOs. I've tried the NVR but keep getting told the FPS hasn't been processed yet. That is why I was checking the other ones as well. I'll try again after I have posted this.
I wouldn't be holding your breath if I were you.
Does this reply mean that HMRC are having delays in general with RTI?

More a general comment that I expect that right now the relevant teams at HMRC are overwhelmed by a tidal wave of compliance issues, and tracking down employee NINOs isn't going to be an enormous priority.

Anecdotally I'm also getting a lot of comments that P35/P14 that have been successfully filed weeks ago are taking a long time to appear in the gateway.

Don Tax · Expert

Just had an instantaneous 'YES' given on the 'Previous Year Filed' column of the HMRC PAYE Client List.

Anyone seeing any FPS Filed details yet?

I've got a client who said he'd do his own and we want to lay bets that he won't.

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

I haven't had time to read the many posts, sorry, but as far as I am aware, if you pay wages, to anybody, you have to process a payroll? That's wages under the threshold, wages to casual staff, the lot...? All my directors have had to make it official, despite that they earn under the threshold (£7696 this year, £7488 last year)

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

FoxAccountancyServices wrote:
I haven't had time to read the many posts, sorry, but as far as I am aware, if you pay wages, to anybody, you have to process a payroll? That's wages under the threshold, wages to casual staff, the lot...? All my directors have had to make it official, despite that they earn under the threshold (£7696 this year, £7488 last year)

You have to process all employee payments, however small, under RTI if the business has a PAYE scheme.

You must start a PAYE scheme (if you don't have one) the moment either:

Any employee earns more than the NI LEL (£109/week) in any period or...
Any employee when starting gives you a P46 with box C ticked (all starters must fill in a P46 even if you don't have a PAYE scheme)

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

Hi Tom, thanks for your information. My PAYE contractor had put a client on a scheme, and he had complained that the lower earners could no longer just go through as casual. I misunderstood why it was necessary, but now I realise it was actually down to one of his earners going over the LEL. :)