Just thought I'd vent some steam. I have used QuickBooks for donkeys years, but have decided to bite the bullet for the coming payroll year and change to Moneysoft due to QB pricing, plus some other things I did not like about the program. I am glad I did, Moneysoft is excellent.
When I went on my PC to file end of year returns for 12-13 via QuickBooks, it wouldn't let me. I telephoned support only to be told I had to purchase the 2013 software to file for the prior year that I have already paid for. I have telephoned the UK office to complain.
I am furious about this. I will certainly not be purchasing the 2013 program and payroll at £250+ in order to file the prior year's files. I'm waiting for a callback from QB office, if I don't get a satisfactory response I will make a report to Trading Standards. I know still have the option of using HMRC's free software, and I think Moneysoft gives me the option of filing for prior years but that isn't the point, I purchased QuickBooks software in good faith, it was advertised with online filing capabilities, therefore, as I pointed out to QB office, to block users from using it until they pay extra money for software they do not need is false advertising.
Has anyone else experienced this? I'm sure there are others in my positon who either are changing software or are just simply closing their payroll services until RTI settles down.
-- Edited by mushroom on Monday 15th of April 2013 03:18:44 PM
I don't hold any particular remit for Quickbooks, but I wonder when your existing licence for QB runs out? If it runs out before the end of the year then it isn't entirely unreasonable that they don't let you complete year-end operations.
(Full disclosure, as a matter of goodwill we extend licences for free if they expire shortly before year-end and the extension is required to complete year-end operations and the client doesn't want to renew, or is closing down)
I don't agree, QuickBooks is not just payroll related software, therefore they are actually expecting people not only to pay for payroll for a period they don't need, but another version of their bookkeeping software as well.
I have used their bookkeeping and payroll for about 13 years and this is the first time they have done this. In the past they usually let people use one version of their bookkeeping software with payroll for 2-3 years, you just purchase the bookkeeping software and then have the option of purchasing the the current year's payroll tax tables, which were £99 plus VAT per annum now in and around £250 plus VAT per annum. I have taken my time in the past upgrading my yearly payroll subscription but it didn't stop me filing the prior year's return. If you continue to use the payroll option, after 2-3 years you get a message telling you to upgrade your bookkeeping software as it will not support payroll anymore. If you don't want the payroll the bookkeeping software stays open and you can keep using the bookkeeping program, I have clients with no employees happily using QB Pro 2008.
The payroll tables on my 2012 Pro QuickBooks are no good for any other year, therefore it just doesn't make sense they should just stop people from using them to complete the year they have paid for. It would do no harm to leave the 2012 payroll software open and let people file, they have paid for the 12-13 tax tables and it is not as if they can use it into the 13-14 year, the tables are out of date once the year ends.
The other problem here is that if I upgrade my bookkeeping software now so quickly my clients who have purchased 2012 pro will have to upgrade as well otherwise I cannot obtain their company files and make changes on on my system. Once I open a 2012 company file on 2013, it cannot be reversed to the 2012 version therefore the file is no good to my clients. I will either have to travel to their premises to complete work, or purchase another hard-drive for my PC where I can run older and new versions of the software. I did actually have a trial version of the 2013 software which kept crashing, there are loads of reports on their forum from others finding the same problem so I don't even have the faith that it is a good year to upgrade, QuickBooks 2009 was not a good program either for some reason. I would rather wait until next year to see it their next upgrade is more stable.
It appears that QuickBooks are doing their best to get people onto this monthly subscription any way they can. I note on their site they have a special offer, go onto their monthly plan at £22 per month and get free payroll, however, that will not last. Pro plus payroll will probably go up to full price after the offer ends, about £45 plus VAT monthly, a complete rip off for a product that isn't capable of accounts production.
They've been very expensive for payroll for several years now, unless you managed to get special deals. I guess they take the view that if you charge 3x as much and lose 2/3 of your customers that is a big win, because support costs drop.
That's true, I don't know how it will pan out for them though, if they are charging the big prices their rivals like Sage etc are charging, they really should be offering the same services like accounts production and SA filing. Their support plans are atrocious, half time they can't help you and I have been given some god-awful advice in the past, I don't pay for them now. They have quite a good online forum, but it is other users that generally help, not staff. There are a few bugs surfacing in their payroll forum at the moment, not off to a good start for their RTI launch.
Their payroll has some really annoying features, you maybe have tried it already. You can only process one period at a time, even if you have employees that are paid the same every period. You than have to click on 'continue' when you have selected the employees, then it moves onto a different page that asks you to confirm it again before the payroll is actually processed, then it throws up a box asking you if you want to print or email the payslips. It is really quite slow If, like me, I am processing for a few companies, that extra time adds up.
I did like your software by the way. I was deciding between yours and Moneysoft when I was contacted by another accountant who is very ill. I took on some of her clients, she used Moneysoft and gave me the clients' old backup files so it was a lot easier for me in that respect to use the same program. It makes life so much easier to have a simple program that does what it says on the tin. I get the impression that QuickBooks sometimes has more input from their designers than their accounts experts. What initially looks nice and flashy can turn out to be quite annoying.
Thanks for the kind comments about our software. Moneysoft is very good, particularly if you run a lot of fairly small payrolls which is their sweet spot, which is why so many practitioners and bureaus like them.
I'm quite glad you wrote your post. I wrote something about QB payroll yesterday. It has not been that good for me. I signed up for the proadvisor scheme and was given it free for a year which is why i'm using it but i won't renew. i was told that i always had to be running the latest version but that's ok because as a pro advisor you get the laterst version sent to you.
Suppport. Don't get me started. A guy yesterday on chat was obviously dealing with several people at a time as it took him ages to answer me. his english was atrocious to the extent i could even understand what he was trying to say. he clearly didn't know the answer anyway but at one point he told me to look under my printer. then told me to call hmrc instead. how he thinks they would know how to use QB i'm not sure!
When my year runs out i will also be getting moneysoft.
I am a big fan of QB's but I have to say I refuse to have the Payroll, I still use a PRO2008 version for a few customers and then the rest is Accountants 2013 version. The payroll support is rubbish on QB's and the price is way to high. I have used it in the past at a company I worked at, but they paid for it so its was not a problem. I would only use it if I was working somewhere and someone else was paying for it, I certainly wouldn't pay for it, if I did my prices for payroll would have to go up to account for the cost.
For me I run 12Pay and I have to say they are great and a big thank-you to the team last week, as they were probably fed up with me calling all the time, but they got me sorted and were always very helpful. I haven't used Moneysoft but I believe its good as well.
I like the QB's software for bookkeeping and really like the new 2013, although it took a while to get use to.
I found the 2013 QuickBooks was very retro looking, it reminded me of the 2004 version that I used to use. It's just what a lot of the software providers do, change some things around, make them look different but at the end of the day it just does the same thing.
How does the ProAdvisor scheme work for you with Princess with QuickBooks getting people on monthly retainers? I have commented on other posts that a QB sales advisor once told me that "we do not advise ProAdvisor's to join to make money selling our products", but I thought that was the point, otherwise what are the benefits? This was a call wherein I telephoned to enquire about the ProAdvisor scheme only to have the guy try to get me on a monthly payment plan instead. If you work out the cost of the monthly payments, they work out to be very expensive considering you can pick up a 2013 Pro CD from a independent reseller for about £120-£130 (excluding payroll) and use it for years, no extra charges. Most people don't need the latest version every year.
They had a half price for a year with free payroll offer a few months back so I pay less than £20 a month and I thought that was OK. I took their proadvisor test so am now listed on their website as a proadvisor with a link to my website which helps with google rankings I guess. I had just taken on my first payroll customer and didn't want to spend money on payroll so it suited me fine at the time. I already had a copy of Premier from their seminar last year where they gave it out. They said I could sell that which i did for £350 and then they also give a copy of Pro for you to sell which I did for another £100. So actually I have made a profit out of it this year. I will continue with the software but not the payroll as I just haven't really got on with it and for that price I would expect it to do things like print P60s without me having to order preprinted stationery from HMRC.
I also did the pro-advisor programme last year to get the payroll but with RTI now I'm thinking I might just go onto 12Pay. So much better and sounds like a lot less hassle. I managed to get the 2012 and 2013 versions of QB, and also managed to sell a licensed copy of each for around £250 (in all not each). But I don't think it will be worth me spending £395 again this year when I've not really used their help desk or the forums or anything. Nor have I got anything out of being a proadvisor. Was good to get the programme for cheaper though. Plus I have Quickbooks for Dummies now which should help me if I get stuck.
I got my first call from the proadvisor site yesterday. I will be providing a few hours training.
Quickbooks. I wouldn't use the support, they are useless. And I didn't get any answers to the few questions I put on their forums. I bought moneysoft yesterday after a bit of thinking. It's the best time of year to change and I didn't want to have to pay for Quickbooks when my free year ran out. Moneysoft are local to me so worst case I can just turn up on their doorstep! So far so good, it seems simple enough.
I got my first call from the proadvisor site yesterday. I will be providing a few hours training.
Quickbooks. I wouldn't use the support, they are useless. And I didn't get any answers to the few questions I put on their forums. I bought moneysoft yesterday after a bit of thinking. It's the best time of year to change and I didn't want to have to pay for Quickbooks when my free year ran out. Moneysoft are local to me so worst case I can just turn up on their doorstep! So far so good, it seems simple enough.
You won't need to. The product and service are good.
Alison from Intuit has been trying to post on the site but there is an issue with her IP address. below is her very helpful response to the thread. Until we are able to resolve her site access issues Alison has very kindly given the site her direct Intuit email in order to be able to get any issue's resolved.
I will be posting any responses that Alison needs to be make to the site in general until her posting issues have been resolved.
Hi everyone,
Alison Ball here - I head up the Accountant Programmes at Intuit UK, including the QuickBooks ProAdvisor Programme and our new ProCloud Partner Programme. I just wanted to just check in here, because I am a little confused...
We send everyone who has a payroll subscription the latest QuickBooks version as soon as it is released. So I am concerned that Mushroom was told she had to pay for a new version of the software.
Mushroom -
Please email me directly at alison_ball@intuit.com and I will arrange for an immediate download of QuickBooks 2013 to be sent to you so you can process your year-end forms. Since you do not have your 2013 disc at hand, we can give you the download as part of your payroll subscription and at no extra charge.
Regarding the QuickBooks ProAdvisor Programme benefits and costs -
For £32/mo + VAT, we give accountants and bookkeepers in practice approximately £1800 worth of software and services, including RTI Payroll and multi-company QuickBooks Accountant Edition. Unlimited UK-based support was added in Sept 2013, and this is provided by a group of specially-trained individuals in our Maidenhead offices. As a ProAdvisor, you can process payroll and accounts for an unlimited number of clients (as long as you are the only person accessing those company files) and we send you the new software as soon as it is launched, provided your membership is in good standing. Additionally, we do not charge for training and certification and Certified ProAdvisors get priority listing on our Find a ProAdvisor website where small businesses go to find local QuickBooks experts.
Regarding re-selling the software -
I am still learning what is most important to my UK ProAdvisors. Based on conversations with hundreds of UK ProAdvisors, I have found that most prefer to make money mainly from their services and they let the client choose where to buy QuickBooks. However some have stated they really want to make money on reselling the software. So this month I was able to offer my ProAdvisors a "buy one get one free" offer on Pro, which means they can get two copies for the price of one, and re-sell them to clients at a small profit, or, bundle with their services. But I welcome the dialogue here - my biggest challenge is that QuickBooks is number one in retail (which means potential future clients for you!) but.... retail gets to charge whatever they want, and that sometimes means that the price dips as the retailers compete for the QuickBooks buyers.
I hope the above is helpful. Please feel free to reach out to me at any time with comments or feedback.
Kind regards,
Alison Ball
Intuit UK
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Are you a QuickBooks ProAdvisor? If so, you are entitled to unlimited dedicated UK-based support, as part of your membership fee. You can call 0808 168 9538 between the hours of 8:00 am and 6:00 pm M-F. Have your customer number handy because there is a validation process at the beginning of the call. Note that if you call outside of those hours, you will likely be served by our global support staff.
If you are not a ProAdvisor, I encourage you to join the programme - it is the best way we have to provide the full range of software, payroll, training, technical support and marketing assistance to practicing bookkeepers like yourself.
I just learned that we have a "flash" sale on ProAdvisor Memberships - I don't know how many are left, but the marketing team has allocated 150 memberships to be sold at only £150 each, plus VAT.
If you want to take advantage of this offer, please call 0808 1684265 and quote 441-4510
But you would be advised to do it quickly, as I do not know how many memberships have been sold at that price already, and the offer has been out for a couple of days now.
HI Kris, thanks for emailing with me privately today - I look forward to hearing your ideas about how I can improve the programme and ensure that ProAdvisors get trained on QuickBooks as and when they need it.
