Hi, could someone clarify for me if the following is correct.
A period of Incapacity to Work (PIW) is formed when an employee has been ill for 4 days or more, including non qualifying days (i.e. weekends for a Mon-Fri worker). The employee is then only paid SSP for the QD's.
I don't do payroll, but my husband was off for two weeks in March due to a Knee injury. He went back to work but knee still not correct. He went on sick again on a Wednesday 17/4/2013. He went back to work on Monday 22nd. Am I right that a PIW has been formed 17/4/2013-21/04/2013 (5 days) so this can therefore be linked to his previous PIW in March. If so he should therefore be paid SSP for the 3 days Wednesday, Thurs & Fri?
Thank you, he was off 4th-18th, so all waiting dates were used in that PIW. His employer hasn't paid him SSP for last week, so I have raised a query with them... still awaiting a response!
Yes Gill, that's about thirty days linking the two PIW's - well within the 56 (8 weeks ) linkage. You could complete an SSP2 form to show the wages office you're keeping precise records and are aware of the legalities. The First Day of PIW would be 4th March.
Thank you, his work has replied stating that they have telephoned HMRC and as he wasn't off for 4 days there was no PIW!!! He was off for 5 days (3 QD's and 2 weekend) .. their E14 on page 8 states that weekends are included... so I have sent this to the wages department to see what they say next Aparently she is relying on Sage... I bet she has only put the Friday in for the last day of sickness!
Thank you, his work has replied stating that they have telephoned HMRC and as he wasn't off for 4 days there was no PIW!!! He was off for 5 days (3 QD's and 2 weekend) .. their E14 on page 8 states that weekends are included... so I have sent this to the wages department to see what they say next Aparently she is relying on Sage... I bet she has only put the Friday in for the last day of sickness!
I very much doubt that HMRC said that. If they did, the query line operator was wrong. I'm pretty sure that Sage will give the right answer if you enter the sickness correctly. This is basic SSP processing.
As you say, any period of sickness of 4 days or more forms a PIW. They all don't have to be working days. Friday to Monday would do. The first 3 working days in a series of linked PIWs are unpaid, subsequent working days in that series attract SSP at the pro-rata weekly rate.
Thanks Tom, I have been told by the wages department that she hadn't heard of the rule about including non working days (so how many other payrolls has she got wrong!). She said she will look into again, but payroll wouldn't be amended until next month. Its only a small amount, but when my husband doesn't get paid sick pay by the company anyhow, then every bit counts!
I telephoned HMRC myself, and in fairness it does depend who you get on the other end, as the one I spoke too first didn't even know what a PIW was!! Scary.
Thanks Tom, I have been told by the wages department that she hadn't heard of the rule about including non working days (so how many other payrolls has she got wrong!). She said she will look into again, but payroll wouldn't be amended until next month. Its only a small amount, but when my husband doesn't get paid sick pay by the company anyhow, then every bit counts!
I telephoned HMRC myself, and in fairness it does depend who you get on the other end, as the one I spoke too first didn't even know what a PIW was!! Scary.
This HMRC flowchart sums up the rules neatly. Note that the box in the middle specifying that a PIW needs to be at least 4 days long does not include the qualifier "working days". Any sickness of 4 days or more forms a PIW, no matter how many working days it includes.
The real problem is the insane complexity of the rules, and the fact that the rules appear to be independent of the real world of people being sick. It feels as if the rules were constructed by DWP officials rolling dice to get the numbers.
Why 8 weeks to link a PIW? (and not 7 or 9 or some other number) Why 3 waiting days? (and not 2 or 4 or some other number) Why does a sickness 3 days long not form a PIW? Why is SSP a weekly rate applied pro-rata to days of sickness and not a straight daily rate?
Another common error that I've seen is people believing that once the first PIW has been formed a sickness of any length within 8 weeks links to it, even if the person is just sick on the second occasion for a day. And I've seen people thinking that linked PIWs only apply when the person is sick again for the same reason as before.
It is a minefield! Hence why I needed the clarification.
Unfortunately it looks like this scenario is going to happen again this month, as my husband has now been struck by an unknown virus... someone doesn't like us at the moment ! So I'll be making sure that the wages department do their job properly, they still haven't sorted out last months error!
HMRC informed me that if it wasn't corrected then I can file a dispute with them.
Aparently she is relying on Sage... I bet she has only put the Friday in for the last day of sickness!
