All depends on the actual work.

Bookkeeping now seems to cover everything from data entry to final accounts for SMEs.

At the lower end where we are primarily talking about data entry work then depending where in the country you are £15 sounds a very good fee. (an awful lot are on a lot less than that).

Also if one is picking up new skills then taking a lower rate is quite common.

Where one is using higher skills and data is being converted to information and we are filing on clients behalf then as your accountant suggests £15 could be deemed on the low end of the market.

Average lower end accountants fee's tend to be around £35 per hour so dependant upon the level of work and the experience on the table really you need to be looking at great than £15 and less than £35 per hour.

Many accountants do not actually appreciate how difficult it is working as a bookkeeper where with what seems quite minimal training so many new bookkeepers are hitting the market all the time and keeping the prices depressed... Which I suppose is why so many bookkeepers are working (with varying degrees of success) as accountants but at a cheaper rate... Which of course could be another reason for the advice in that accountants in the SME sector are now competing against bookkeepers who are undercutting them.

At the end of the day, if you are happy with your rate and you feel that it properly reflects the time, skill and effort invested in your business then it is enough and it does not matter what the accountant thinks.

If on the other hand you feel that you are using higher level skills but being paid at the lower rate then it might be time to review your charges accross your client portfolio.

No matter what you charge some clients will always complain. The key is though to ensure that your rate is not so high that you get nobody but not so low that you end up with local accountants taking out a contract on you.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Thanks all for your comments.


So far for the 2 clients that I have been doing a lot of data entry, entering invoices, reversing off incorrect entries, journals, bank recs, showing owners how to use Sage etc and also showing them the different modules that are there to show them the position the business is in.

I've also just prepared the VAT ready for the accountant to submit to HMRC. I've reconiled debtors and creditors and journalled in opening bank balances etc.
I've yet to do a month end or year end close on Sage. Looking forward to that but also a bit apprehensive. I have one coming up through an accountant. He has just completed the last set of accounts for a client and now wants me to entering opening balances and then close off the year end.

Still learning but absolutely loving it. Much prefer it to my full time job.

Bring on more clients!

Elaine

Thank you Alison !

May I kindly ask how ICB is like ? Did they help also with practical issues ?
Is there someone to call in order to get clear practical answers ?

Many thanks,

Adrian

I took my first client on last year and asked for £21 per hour and must admit was surprised when she said yes! I now quote that to all of my new clients, unless they are a brand new business in which case I will suggest for example - start at £16 per hour for the first month and increase by £1 per hour the following month etc until I get to my £21 normal rate - that strategy has won me two new clients in the last couple of months and they are grateful for the help when they havent got much cash to play with at first! I do have one customer that I acquired from a friend who charged a flat fee of £300 for the VAT quarter - I was a bit unsure but to be honest that is just pure data input so it can be done really quickly so can work out between £40-£65 per hour depending on how quick I can type!!! I do charge additional rates for payroll - a scale charge depending on number of staff and frequency of payroll - I even added £5 per time on for RTI (and £5 for any changes eg staff leaving etc)

Hi Kris,

I know what you mean about fixed prices at that would probably suit most clients so that they know how much they are paying each month instead of me charging by the hour and saying I have spent this many hours doing your books. With it being such a new business and only 2 clients at the moment and not even sure if they are going to be regular I am still trying to work out how much time it would take so that I can work out monthly fees. Both clients are bitty and just drop it on me when they need me so finding it very difficult but some work is better than no work. They pay me when the work is done so no need to chase. I've got that to be thankful for at the moment. I am quite strict when it comes to getting cash in as I have previously done credit control. The minute someone doesn't pay me then I will stop doing their work.

I may up my rate to £20.00 per hour as I am not just doing purely bookkeeping. I have been guiding both these clients in the right direction as they do not understand about keeping their finances and paperwork in good order. One of them I have organised his monthly invoices in to files and am educating him about getting money in and not paying suppliers too soon. I've done a bit of Cash forecasting with one of them. Also explaining about submitting VAT returns etc. So definitely more than just plain bookkeeping.

The other client I am helping to set up emailing straight from Sage and to do the VAT returns on Sage.

Elaine

I accept that you can't say you're the best, or say others are rubbish (even though we are still allowed to think it, or have they banned that too?). But to differentiate yourself you don't need to be the best, just see things differently.

I do know that my local garage does piss all marketing and still makes more per hour that most local bookkeepers.  This is a worth thing, he thinks he's worth £40 and most bookkeepers don't. 

Anyway, off to the marketing thread.

Kris

-- Edited by kjmcculloch83 on Thursday 30th of May 2013 04:53:59 PM

I think a lot has to do with geographical area. Elaine, you and I are up north, so prices tend to be cheaper then down south. I charge £15 per hour for bookkeeping and £25 for accounts and tax and I get told I am too expensive, which I personally think is ridiculous, given that my old boss charged me out at £45 not matter what. I have tried to increase my bookkeeping price to £20 per hour and had no takers. The other day I was told by a company, that they were paying £11 an hour.

I do charge £20 to some companies, and these are the ones where I have set up and run a very technical Sage (one that no one else could simply take over).

Bear in mind, these people are approaching me knowing I have excellent 100% feedback on the freelance web sites I use, and know of my long experience working in Chartered Accountants.

I was having a think about this, and about what you are saying Michelle about putting prices up. I don't want to go all Bob but I think it depends how you pitch your service. If we say I am a really good bookkeeper, I can do purchases/sales ledgers, VAT, payroll etc. how does that seperate us from everyone else. If we all just look the same on the face of it then it's not a huge surprise people are buying on price. All else being the same price can be the only thing which seperates us.

Surely it's about deciding what makes us different from every other bookkeeper and accountant and selling that? If we can all find something which makes us different then we make it harder for clients to shop purely on price. The alternative is a race to the bottom.

Kris

Hi Vince, per my AAT member in practice entry rules, I have a person in place for continuity of practice. She would be able to run the systems her own way, if anything happened to me. Whether that means she can do it in the same time I can, would be a different matter - For example, I took a 3 day a week job and made it a 2 day a month job.

Hi Kris, you make an excellent point - For some potential clients, the decent pitch doesn't work. I am pretty good at selling myself, and have more to say than "I can do purchases/sales ledgers, VAT, payroll etc" but some just want low prices, unfortunately, and will go elsewhere to find it. Luckily, I have managed to secure clients that are happy to pay a lower price than some local accountants, but appreciate that I am value for money, not cheap. Indeed, some complain I am under charging after having worked with me.

It doesn't help that there are freelancers out there offering a tax return for £12 (!!) and I suppose as the mystery of accountancy evaporates (which I don't think is a total bad thing), more and more business people think it must be so simple to press a button and create the accounts and tax return. Like there is no other work involved. We have seen posts on here, that have questioned why accountants are even needed.

All in all, the industry has definitely changed since I first got into it, mainly by HMRC's drive to simplify things (Did I just say that outloud. HMRC SIMPLIFIED things.. SLAP! Sorry, moment of idealism!!)

Sorry Michelle,

I wasn't talking about you there, just in general when you visit bookkeepers or even accountants websites they all say much the same thing. I've just picked 3 bookkeeper and accountant websites at random and all three have a generic list of services. More frighteningly (and something I have been guilty of) all three have the main selling points of - we're really good, we've been about for years and we're affordable. How great a proposition is that for clients? As a profession how bad are we at marketing? And if we are so bad, is it a surprise that mechanics can charge more than us per hour?

Kris

But mechanics are not restricted by the IFAC code of ethics (s250) plus one's own professional bodies rules where such are more stringent.

We cannot claim unfounded superiority of our own services or be disparaging of other practices.

So nobody is allowed to say that they are the best accountant in an area unless they are the only accountant in that area.

And you certainly cannot say that you are better than joe bloggs down the road.

Thats why prizes are important as you can say that you have a prize for your work even though you cannot say that you are better than anyone else but the client can draw their own conclusions.

Other rules include the general stuff such as has to be honest, legal, in good taste, say nothing that could bring the profession into disrepute.

Right Kris, now go back through those three sites and see how many you can get thrown out of their professional bodies and fined for the privellage because they have not read, or not understood, the rules that they have to adhere to!... IN my area I reccon that I could wipe out all of the competition in a single night of the long knives style complaint campaign. lol (I wouldn't. If the professional bodies are that interested then they will find them themselves... Even the sheep ad).

And thats why mechanics ads are better (in some ways) than ours.

-- Edited by Shamus on Sunday 7th of July 2019 03:59:34 PM

No, I am Spartacus....

Shamus wrote:

 

 birds of a feather methinks.

---

 You two certainly sounds like two women to me :oP