I use lot of different bookkeeping accounts packages except SAGE! I offer Kashflow instead of Xero, and although clients can access and update them, the reality is very few actually do and prefer to pay a bookkeeper to do it for them. So NO, as long as you are happy to use other accounting packages you will NOT be out of a job. I have never considered an individual who says " I can only use Sage" a bookkeeper. All bookkeepers should be able to figure out how to use any accounting package if required.
The main reason I like online accounts packages which clients can access, is so I can check if clients (or bookkeepers) are up dating them and updating them correctly. If they get 3 months behind, I get one of my bookkeepers to ring them and offer to help. Also if they do incorrect transactions the bookkeeper (or I) can help them correct them. I do charge for the bookkeepers time, and most clientseventually realise that handing it over to the bookkeeper is easier and ofter cheaper than doing it themselves. The online accounts also makes it easy to change bookkeepers if for any reason they can't do it.
-- Edited by YLB-HO on Sunday 9th of June 2013 01:34:03 PM
I have been using Sage Line 50 to do the bookkeeping for a client for a while now. but my client has now told me they will using Xero at the beginning of their FY. I have looked at the Xero on line demo's and read the comments on here about it and now believe that I will be out of job as it seems to be client focussed whereby the client inputs all the data. Am I correct in thinking this?
The whole selling point of xero is for it to be more user friendly from the client.
While SAGE works well if you know the bookkeeping that is going on the background xero doesnt require this. So i expect as more people move to xero more bookkeepers will find themselves out of work.
I have already had 2 clients moving from SAGE to xero and they love it. Plus have a few more that are looking to use it.
It also has the benefits of
1. Being accessible anywhere from internet browser
2. Bank feeds direct from bank which reduces the input requirement as bank rec can be done lot quicker than before
Personally i think that xero will be the dominent accounts package for small businesses in the next 10 years. SAGE really has a fight on its hands. I am not a xero advocate as I love SAGE as everyone on here will know having used it for 15 years and also teaching it a local enterprise facility. But i think it needs to up its game to stay ahead of the competition.
Hi Georgie. I can see why you may have come to that conclusion but I genuinely believe the introduction of easy to use software such as Xero et al poses no threat to the bookkeeping community.
Online accounting software is generally very easy to use and vastly improves the ability for the bookkeeper and the client to collaborate and for the client to do certain things themselves. Whilst this may seem like a threat, its actually a great opportunity for bookkeepers to free up their time and use that time to increase client numbers, develop new skills and start offering additional value adding (and more profitable) services. There is some great content on the Xero site about this and you can find other useful content on the other vendors sites too.
We (Sage) have released our own online accounts and payroll system called Sage One and it offers many of the same benefits as does a lot of the online solutions out there. We have many many bookkeepers now using Sage One and the feedback has largely been that it enables them to easily and profitably service clients who they'd usually be reluctant to work with due to the high cost to serve. So there is another great sign there that bookkeepers will be perfectly fine, even with the introduction of cloud accounting.
Thanks for the kind comments re Sage Mark. I'd say the introduction of cloud accounting by vendors such as Kashflow, Xero but also more established players like Intuit has slightly changed the dynamics of the market and there is no doubt that this will be increasingly influential over the coming years. However, with our online equivalent we've seen great progress with around 400% growth in customers last year alone which shows there is a great demand for online accounting so I'm confident the future is very bright for Sage and vendors in the online accounts market as a whole.
Appologies in advance, my comments will not be as kind as Marks.
When are Sage going to change their licencing which lets be honest is extortionate.
Even paying full price with Intuit (which few ever do) you can have 99 clients where you could not even get the base 25 package for the same price with Sage 50.
It comes accross that we are taxed by Sage on the number of clients that we have on it.
Surely if you want to maintain market share you need to react to the new threats by dropping per client licensing and start selling software that doesn't tax success.
Currently, being honest it makes no financial sense to have clients go down the Sage route and its beneficial to encourage them to drop it as it effects our bottom line when compared to the common alternatives.
non of this is intended to be against the actual product which some like and some don't (I'm not a big fan but thats just personal choice) the issue is that even for those who like the Sage the licensing is making people think twice about choosing that over alternatives which sell the use of the software without reference to the number of clients that you are using it for.
I hope that this is received in the constructive manner that it is intended,
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
However, I still can't see what I would actually "do" in terms of posting transactions etc as the client will be posting all the invoices and completing the bank rec etc. How am I going to benefit when he moves over to Xero? What will I actually be doing??
Would I need to partner with Xero so I could perform final accounts?
I love Sage, and I'll sell Instant over any other package, any day.. but I agree with Sean.. I am selling the product to clients, but then paying through the nose to support it.
One hopes that the increase of QB and Xero is going to shake up Sage's pricing on Client Manager licences. (Wouldn't mind seeing that happen on SAPA and Tax either!)
Still, QB were charging my client £38 a month, so I got him to buy Sage Instant for £100 one off, and he can use that for 5 years, and then invest in an upgrade. I am not about paying monthly subs just yet.
However, I still can't see what I would actually "do" in terms of posting transactions etc as the client will be posting all the invoices and completing the bank rec etc. How am I going to benefit when he moves over to Xero? What will I actually be doing??
Would I need to partner with Xero so I could perform final accounts?
Georgie
You could just take the TB from Xero, and put it into your usual software. That said, if you want to keep the client, it might be worth looking into how you can support them with Xero without it costing you anything. It could be that you log in and do all the matching for them.
So I have concluded that yes, I will be out of a job because it's hard to see what I would actually be doing. At the moment I go to the clients once a month and spend 4-6 hours on Sage doing his bookkeeping...this isn't going to happen with Xero is it?
Best wishes Georgie ( another client bites the dust)!
Georgie: You simply need to re-think the service you offer your client and adapt. I have one client (well, technically two) who uses a cloud based system (Neetrix) - which, just as you say is so for Xero, is very customer-centric. and they do all the basic inputting etc themselves. I then reconcile things - with a smidgeon of inputting and correcting things - and take the P&L and Balance Sheet from it, presenting them in a more compact and readable form in a spreadsheet so they have month by month comparisons.
I'm not keen on cloud based accounting for a few reasons*, and one of them is that I've yet to see one which allows me to input supplier invoices as quickly as I can on Sage's desktop software** - but if I'm not doing that, the client can use whatever the hell they please despite my other reservations about it.
* Of course, there is a big advantage to using it: It means I don't have to worry about keeping sensible office hours. Or bothering to get dressed. Or even getting out of bed for that matter, if I arranged things suitably. :)
** I say that, but I charge by the hour, and if the client wants to pay for [more of] my time to input into something that takes five times longer and is therefore going to cost them five times as much, it's their choice.
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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
Xero spend a lot of time and marketing budget engaging with accountants AND bookkeepers, so you can conclude that they do not wish to disenfranchise either anytime soon. Indeed, they see both of these groups as their main route to the small business user market and provide incentives and free software to help smooth the path.
As with any business, you need to take account of changing circumstances and, in particular, the way technology is replacing effort in lots of new areas. Travel Agents didn't. Kodak didn't. Look where they are now.
I believe that you should embrace Xero, and the move generally towards making accounting software more end-user friendly (which is equivalent to removing Sage 50 from the picture in practical terms because it is so opaque to the typical small business owner), and re-position your services. Use the time saved on basic data entry to provide more valuable, higher-level services to your client - cash flow forecasting and budgeting for just one example?
Clients are voting with their feet and adopting a Canute-like approach to this can only have one result.
Adrian
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Adrian Pearson Blog: www.adrianpearson.com | Mobile: 07944 970997 | Email: adrianpearson@outlook.com Xero data conversion specialist. Founder of Movemybooks and Ledgerscope.
Thanks for the reply Vince, I can see a case study in there somewhere :)
Georgina - Sorry that you're not convinced. I can only go off the views of the bookkeeping community who I have dealt with and so far the response has been largely positive with regards to online but I can understand your views and as Vince has articulated, online isn't for everyone at the moment.
Shaun - thanks for the comments, I see where you're coming from. Its difficult for me to comment on this because I've never had anything to do with the pricing of those products you mentioned. Accountants and bookkeepers I have spoken to in the past who are content with the pricing for those products often mention the support we offer as being the real value of Sage versus alternatives. If this is the case then I'd suspect per client charging is in effect to ensure those levels of support are not compromised. Again, this is only my view, I dont know whether this is the rationale or not. The club offerings are much better value than buying the software by itself but I suspect this will not appeal to everyone.
Sorry I couldnt be of more help.
just to bring some balance to that arguement though.
For some businesses desktop sollutions (be that Sage, QB, or whatever) are the best option. For others, usually the smaller entities then a sollution such as Xero, Kashflow, Sage one, QB online etc. may be the best sollution.
I am reminded of the old addage "Horses for courses".
There are a lot of businesses out there where Sage 50 is integral to the way that they do business (and I'm glad there are as passing them on to my freindly accountant keeps me in supervision). To change their software would not be a cost effective sollution for them.
That said, there are also lots of new businesses who come away from the bank scratching their head at this new software that they have been given and expected to use when they should be concentrating on building their business rather than learning new software.
Those are the market to aim for. Give them something intuitive and simple.
Quite often I advise clients that there is nothing wrong with Excel and even set up bespoke spreadsheets for them which I feed into my software at the period end.
However we do it, the only important issue is that accurate records are kept on a timely basis.
If the client can do it, fine. As toched upon by Michelle, provided that there is a trial balance and the evidence to support that balance then the software that they use is a no never mind.
If they can't keep records then we will use whatever software suits us best to keep the records for the size and complexity of their business.
Quoting travel agents and Kodak is one approach but equally people could argue Sinclair C5. The innovative new way to travel that nobody actually wanted.
I am not comparing Xero to the C5, just the argument that change or die is not always true...
Other examples include Clear Pepsi, new Coke, Microsoft Vista, etc. Which should serve as warnings that if it aint broke don't fix it.
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Thanks for all the input with this..... I too use different accounting software packages Frauke (including Sage) but haven't tried a cloud based one (yet). I think in the interest of research and development I will visit this post again in a few months and let you all know how I got on with Xero.
@ Georgie - it's a logical concern but one that on balance, you should be able to find plenty of reassurance about. Rather than justify it myself - I'm bound to be biased - I'll just point you to the comments of other bookkeepers and you can make your own mind up...
- A recent blog post from a bookkeeper - http://bookkeepersofmelbourne.com.au/xero-why-all-the-fuss/
- There are more than 600 members of this Bookkeepers group on LinkedIn discussing how to adapt to working with cloud apps as a bookkeeper - http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Xero-Bookkeepers-International-4548996?trk=myg_ugrp_ovr
@ Shamus - I think your view is correct to the extent that we're in a transitional period and for as long as that transition takes, there will be a good few people happy with older desktop software like Sage. But I have to say that my firm view (having worked on both sides of the divide for 20+ years) is that one day; possibly as long as ten years from now, the case for using desktop software will have all but evaporated in favour of modern equivalents and the cloud.
The shift to cloud is as profound and impactful in the medium term as the shift from the mainframe was to client server and desktop apps thirty years ago.
In terms of new buying decisions, I suspect that it won't be long before more people choose to purchase cloud based software than desktop software (we could already be past that point) and this will have a dilutional effect in terms of use.
Gary Turner Managing Director, Xero
-- Edited by garyturner on Monday 10th of June 2013 06:13:42 PM
"In terms of new buying decisions, I suspect that it won't be long before more people choose to purchase cloud based software than desktop software (we could already be past that point) and this will have a dilutional effect in terms of use."
Purchase?
I think you mean rent.
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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
No offence was intended Gary (and judging by the smiley, none was taken). I did get the point you were making, but it's a not-so-subtle difference that I'm starting to think too many people don't realise - and that might very well be a factor in why there is such a shift, which is why I'm inclined to point it out.
(To be fair, legally, even if you "purchase" software on disc or whatever, you're still only buying a licence to use it - but in practice, for most software, you can carry on using it forever. Well, if you're immortal and always have something on which it will run.)
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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
I have been to a Xero software demo today...and the jury is out. I will put my hand up here and admit I am a control freak and like things done my way Not sure I like the idea of my client posting the data into the software...(will he get tired of doing that in a few months and I will then have the ardous task of putting things right)?? Don't like the "add on" feature either....The price is not transparent.
Anyway, my client has decided Xero is the way to go . So, there you are, I will suck it and see! And as I said I will post again on this forum when it has been up and running for a while and let you all know how it went....
