Yeeks! Just starting out as a bookeeper - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Amanda · Expert

Yeeks! Just starting out as a bookeeper

Missey · Veteran Member

Hi All

I have been absorbing the posts on this forum for the past 4 years whilst studying my AAT qualification on a part time basis. Having just completed the AAT qualification, I'm feeling totally in limbo as I have no experience whatsoever as a book keeper. I know there have been many posts like this in the past but I can't seem to locate.

In order to qualify for MIP I need to get some experience first. I have so many questions so I thought I would just run a couple past the forum in the hope that some of you would be willing to help. A friend has approached me (knowing I have just qualified) asking me to do her books. She is just starting her own beauty business as a sole trader plus she also has a rental property. She has asked me if I would be willing to accept beauty treatments in payment for my services. Having read the posts on the forum my feeling is that although I am very very inexperienced I think I should "start as I mean to go on" by offering her a 50% discount at a rate of £15 per hour.

What would you guys do. I will be using her in effect to gain experience so one could argue that I should accept contra payment but on the other hand it may become messy in the future when I will want to start charging her a rate. At least if I charge an hourly rate with discount she will know exactly what it costs to have a book keeper even if I decide to accept a beauty treatment here and there as partial payment.

I don't have any book keeping software at the moment and so again your thoughts on this. A friend who is a book keeper in Australia only does books at the client's premises so that she does not have to buy the software?

Finally, could anyone guide me as to what questions I need to ask client's on the first interview (even if they are a friend).

I feel really embarrassed asking these questions having just completed my AAT qualification but it proves that passing exams is one thing but actually putting it into practice is another. However, I' really looking forward to learning, learning, falling, learning and learning.

I really love this forum and the professional way you guys seem to handle your businesses. Could someone tell me how to subscribe to the forum and if there is a fee.

I look forward to hearing from you all.

Many thanks

Bubs

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Hello Bubs,

I am in the same situation as you,
I might say that the Bookcert business kit may give you tons of advice on starting your business, although you need to keep an eye on latest industry developments as new software etc etc, going to exhibitions as Accountex (where I have meet accountants who encouraged me to open my own biz) and networking with other accountants or bookkeepers as much as you can.
The Kit gives you also a piece of software based on excel that is very useful for bookeeping for soletraders and small companies, samples of letters to clients.

As questions could be :
Turnover ?
Transactions per month ?
No of Employees ?
How long the business was establish ?
Who has done the accounting before you ? in case that they change the accountant you need to get in touch with the accountant that was working with them before you

I think a lot of ethics elements have to be considered here that are in the AAT books.

The accountancy is a field when you are always learning so this is why I ave decided to open my own business, because no matter how long I will work as an employee there will still not be the specific info I need.

Hope to hear from you soon,

Have a great day !

Adrian

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Some really good advice there from Adrian.

If you take the beauty treatments its a bennefit in kind so you would end up paying tax on it from money that you don't actually have coming in yet! (so a real white elephant of a gift).

A better approach saying as you are both just starting out and your main concern is the experience is to offer deferred payment terms.

Not great for your cashflow but better than paying tax on a service that you may not have opted for in the first place.

The thing top be wary of with payment arrangements is to ensure that the client does not feel that the arrangement is between freinds which can really get messed up and you end up with no freind and no money.

What will the arrangement be? Are you just going to be doing the bookkeeping or offering the full service and if full service how does that fit in pre MAAT MIP?

Also, don't forget that you need to be set up for MLR before taking on any clients.

Some more questions that you need to ask are

all the MLR essentials (evidence of who they say they are, etc.)

Does the client have a seperate bank account for the business

How much capital have they sunk into the business... What evidence do they have of this.

List of all pre trading expenditure.

How and when will you be supplied with input

What are they expecting to be able to expense (be prepared to give them a reality check)

For getting to know the client business I use a handy acronym to remind me of the things that I try to get a handle on at the meeting : BOOGI RIFF SOS

it doesn't mean anything. just those were the letters that I had and needed to make something out of it. You also won't find it in any book, it's just something peculiar to me to help me remember matters that I need to consider... I use loads of these things as unless I have an acronym I always fear that I've left something out (sometimes I think that I need to start making acronymns to remember the acronyms.

Anyway, this one is basically :

B - business risks
O - Ownership
O - Operations
G - Governance
I - Industry specific issues

R - Regulatory environment
I - Internal Control
F - Financing
F - Financial Performance

S - Strategy
O - Objectives
S - Structure

Also, make sure that the client signs an engagement letter.

As indicated by Adrian, don't do anything that might compromise your ethical stance even though the gig is for a freind. Personally I have found that freinds and family are the client most likely to pull a fast one so keep a weather eye on the documentation and if something doesn't feel right question it.

Good luck with the new business and look forwards to chatting,

kind regards,

Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

lol Amanda. Yep, I admit it I'm a complete gas bag who doesn't know when to shut up.

I actually Forgot the software part of the question. Personally I'm a big advocate of VT.

VT is accountancy software for accountants and bookkeepers that expects a level of knowledge of double entry and accounting standards as a prerequisit.

I'm only just starting to look at quickbooks as I don't want to alienate myself from the QB community as well as the Sage one (always have to check the rooftops now for snipers on leaving the house, lol).

VT and Quickbooks are both multi client and are about the same price (if you buy QB pro in a sale it actually comes in a little cheaper).

You can get a two month trial of VT before you need to buy it. If you go with that option I recommend getting VT Accounts which comes with VT Transaction+ bundled. The reasoning is that even if you do not intend to offer a full accounts service to learn the software being able to prepare a full set of accounts is a brilliant learning tool.

12pay is excellent for payroll and you will need something like that now that we have RTI.

I can't comment on Xero as I've not played with any cloud based software yet.

Also, as you will be playing in the micro business market it is not safe to assume that clients will have their own software. I still get several shoe boxes / box files a year dumped on me where everything just went in the box for me to sort out (and personally I actually prefer that to the clients having a bash that you need to reverse out before you start).

kind regards,

Shaun.

Missey · Veteran Member

Thanks Shaun, Amanda and Adrian for you helpful advice. There is an internet ban at work hence the delay in replying. This is another thing I will have to sort out otherwise client's won't be able to get hold of me (if I ever have the pleasure of having more than one client).

I think I need to firstly organize my PII, MLR (which I think will have to be directly with HMRC as I won't be able to use the AAT route until I have qualified for MIP). I suppose this of course means I will have to register myself as a sole trader or is this necessary at this early stage? Also, in order to get evidence of my work AAT requires that I get my work signed off by a qualified Accountant of fully registered AAT. I wonder if any of you have had any experience with this?

So much to think about.

Better get back to my day time job now.

Bye for now

Bubs

Missey · Veteran Member

Apologies for my obvious questions but I am really in the dark here so here goes. Do I have to register myself as a sole trader or limited company in order to be self-employed as a bookeeper?

thanks

Bubs

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Either.

I would say that the bulk of bookkeepers are self employed and the bulk of accountants are limited or LLP's with some of either group having the traits of the other.

It is not for myself without knowing your overall strategy and objectives to advise but I suspect that you will end up going down the self employed route.

You will have to register as self employed and you will end up paying class 2 and 4 NI whereas with a limited company you would pay Class 1 employee and Class 1 employer.

Going either route you will also need to complete a self assessment for yourself each year.

HTH,

Shaun.

Missey · Veteran Member

Thanks Shaun. I am currently employed in a full time position (not as a bookkeeper I might add and nothing to do with accounts).

My objective is to work as a self-employed bookkeeper outside my regular office hours (evenings and weekends) so I guess I will be going down the self-employed route. How would this work though as I already pay under Class 1. Would the self-employed and employed status be covered on a PD11?

Bubs

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

All depends on income levels.

You need to contact HMRC to get a dispensation from class 2 contributions (CA72B).

You will normally still need to pay class 4 on the business income which is quite seperate to your income under employment.

If you went limited you would have two employments running concurrently (greedy so and so, lol).

Your going to be spending half of your life going forwards with at least one HMRC screen open (I've currently got 9 of them open on various tabs) so to get you started here's a handy help page on being employed and self employed at the same time.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/working/intro/employed-selfemployed.htm

... Look how complex this is getting already. No wonder clients need us.

HTH,

Shaun.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Hello !

The HMRC MLR could take a couple of weeks,this might be the first step. It costs me £ 110

I have some questions about self employed and limited company, but I will open another topic if I am allowed.

Cheers

Adrian

Missey · Veteran Member

Thanks Shaun, I'll have a look at the link.
Thank Adrian, I will make this a priority.

Cheers

Bubs

honeyman1980 · Newbie

hi guys

just need some advice.... I have completed my level one in basic book-keeping a number of years ago, I have just finished completing my BA (Hons) Accounting and Finance degree... I am getting disheartened about not being able to find work so have been thinking of starting my own book-keeping business.. I feel confident that I know enough to be able to complete the work but with my qualifications am I able to do this???

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Sarah

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Maybe ICB will help, they seems to have good courses and advice for bookkeepers,
I think many bookkeepers who are on this forum are members and I am seriously thinking of joining as I`ve heard they offer good support to their members.
www.bookkeepers.org.uk/

Have a good day.

Adrian

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Grrrrr.....

Don Tax · Expert

LOL - not as good as here don't you think, Adrian.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Sarah,

welcome to the forum.

The best thing to do is envisage where you see your career aspirations and then decide how to get there.

It sounds as though you are looking at self employment due to failing to find employment rather than self employment being by choice.

Is that where you see your career?

You've gained a degree in accountancy which is a great stepping stone but the issue that you will now hit is employers want experience and an accountancy qualification (user to be OR but it really is a buyers market out there).

The three that will score brownie points (in order) are AAT, CIMA and ACCA.

No doubt that you've read on here about the difficulties caused by ACCA regulation 8 in working as a bookkeeper whilst attempting to gain qualification.

CIMA is also an excellent choice and they are more flexible about you earning from self employment whilst studying.

AAT is an excellent qualification where many accountants started out on their path but in many ways is more restrictive than CIMA.

If you set up as a self employed bookkeeper in order to expand your knowledge whilst working towards one of those three you will need Money Laundering cover from HMRC (legal requirement). PII cover from a company such as Arlington, register with HMRC as self employed. Some relevant software such as Qucikbooks, Sage or VT. plus 12pay or Moneysoft for Payroll work.

Again, plenty of discussions on here in relation to software.

Tell us a little more about what makes you tick and what your aspirations are and I'm sure that we'll be able to advise the best route for yourself which, considering a degree in accounting and finance I would be adverse to going ICB or IAB unless you really do want self employment as a bookkeeper as an end in itself rather than a stop gap stepping stone into accountancy which is how I am reading your background.

kind regards,

Shaun.

p.s. the Grrrrr above wasn't in relation to Adrian but rather the ICB using this sites name just with the hyphen taken out. Also, appart from one area of the site you have to be a member of the ICB in order to post replies whereas this site is free for posters from any professional body and even those yet without one. As such we have a good cross selections of AAT, ATT, ACA, ACCA, CIMA, IFA, IAB and ICB posters (plus others) on here.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Shamus wrote:

AAT is an excellent qualification where many accountants started out on their path but in many ways is more restrictive than CIMA.

Hello !

Thank you Shaun as I feel that I am learning from every post.

May I kindly ask what are the restrictions that AAT applies ?

Sorry for the icb post, I was just trying to help a little bit.

Many thanks,

Adrian

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Adrian,

your doing fine and my reply was very tongue in cheek (people are under no apprehensions when I'm properly annoyed at something (refer to the sheep video thread)).

Actually, after a bit of further digging I've got to hold my hands up and say that I'm wrong. AAT and CIMA seem quite similar in what they allow students to do with ACCA being the odd one out on the restrictions front (see the regulation 8 threads (some tlinks in the link below)).

I just remembered a discussion with Steve (Rhianach) some time back. Took a few mins but I found it and it includes a gem from the AAT site :

I'm an AAT student member - can I be a MIP?

While you are studying for your AAT qualification, you can set up in practice.
However, certain restrictions apply until you become a full member:

You may not advertise in connection with the AAT.
You must only undertake work within your competence and seek professional advice where necessary.
You must abide by the our Guidelines on Professional Ethics.
You are strongly advised to take out professional indemnity insurance.

Thats what it says concerning students.

What does member in practice' mean?
If you're an AAT full or fellow member offering accountancy, taxation or related consultancy services to the public in the UK or Channel Islands, you must become an AAT member in practice.

and

Why does the AAT operate a MIP scheme?

If you're working for yourself, it's vital that your clients have the utmost confidence in you and the services you offer.

Our member in practice scheme enables us to:

regulate all full and fellow members who are in practice
provide tailored support to members in practice
demonstrate to the public and the industry that you're competent, highly trained, and committed to high standards of ethics and professionalism.

Whilst wandering around I came accross this thread that you might find interesting.

http://www.book-keepers.org.uk/t45510484/just-starting-out-at-bookkeeping-a-few-questions/

hth,

Shaun.

Missey · Veteran Member

Hi Shaun

I contacted the AAT last week (I'm just about to receive my AAT qualification) to see how I can gain experience in order to qualify for full membership and eventually MIP. I told them that my friend had asked me to do her accounts as she is setting up a small business. The AAT said that they would encourage and expect members to do this kind of work so long as it is signed off by a qualified accountant by way of evidence. What I am wondering though and something I forgot to ask them is that surely in order to gain experience in filling out a tax return I need to actually do the work but I guess my question is - am I allowed to fill in a tax return for my friend.? I need the experience and so I guess if I ask a qualified accountant to assess and sign off my work then that's okay? The AAT said that I can do the work but I cannot affiliate myself with AAT until I receive full membership.

So, in summary, would you volunteer to do tax returns in addition to bookkeeping etc.,? Otherwise, how do I gain the experience as I don't work in an accounts environment at the moment.

By the way, I have come to an arrangement that for the first two months until both of us actually register ourselves as self-employed that we will do contra work (each of us giving a 50% discount). I have told her that after this period I will need to charge her full rate but would consider deferred payments.

Another question. Would you leave it up to the client to arrange finding an accountant to sign of my work? I'm thinking that it would probably benefit me more to get friendly with an accountant and so perhaps I should be the one searching out the accountant to sign off my work.

With regard to assets, does anyone have any experience bookkeeping for a beautician and how do we account for assets. Is there a cap on what can be classed as an asset (for depreciation purposes).

Many thanks

Bubs

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Well, there's a few things burried in that message, lol.

What the AAT are saying is basically a repetition of the first two lines of the note lifted from their site (see above reply to Adrian) :

- You may not advertise in connection with the AAT.
Basiclly what they were saying about making no mention of AAT in anything that you do or say. Basically its as though you have no affiliation with them at all until you attain MAAT MIP status.

So no advertising that you are AAT qualified, or studying towards AAT or anything. Clients must not know that there is any association at all.

- You must only undertake work within your competence and seek professional advice where necessary.
This is referring to getting the work signed off by a qualified accountant. And thats where many come unstuck.

The scenario that you desceribe is the age old seperation between bookkeeping (everything to trial balance) and accountancy (everything after that). The lines have become blurred over the years as to where one stops and the other begins but in principle the scenario is similar to what what you are looking at in that you need to get final signoff from a qualified accountant.

And there's the problem.

you talk about contacting an accountant as though such is the easiest part of this but the reality will prove somewhat different.

Accountants are businesses and the charge rate for qualified accountants is almost certain to be higher than your charge rate so, to review your work to a state where the accountant feels that they are happy to put their name to it is likely to cost more than the work is bringing in.

In this case where you are taking barter transactions as payment that is even more so in that the accountant will want payment by more traditional means.

Careful as well over the accountants that you go to as I believe that AAT expect MAAT MIP or higher (so Chartered, chartered certified, etc). IFA, AIA would probably be OK but not QBE accountants.

Welcome to the catch 22. You can probably do the work but getting it approved so that you can use it for your client will probably cost you more than the fee's available to you.

The way that I got around it was by exchanging clients for supervision.

Barter Transactions as Payment

The transaction has a value, that value is taxable at the value of the goods received or service rendered.

So, if I accepted a chicken as full payment for a set of accounts and I would normally charge £350 for a set of accounts then the chicken is worth £350 and that is what must be recorded as revenue to go into the tax calculation.

You are both trying to reduce your costs but the tax consequence is still that services have been rendered for a return and tax is due on that (most common form of this sort of transaction is services for advertising. See SIC-31).

You must both still charge and invoice the full amount through your books but may contra the payments.

Self employment timing

Why are you not registering yourselves as self employed immediately.

Lets forget about your client for a moment and look at just your case.

You cannot work for a client without money laundering supervision either from your professional body or via HMRC. In your case because yopu are not yet MIP it will have to be via HMRC.

Are you saying that you will be offering services without MLR in which case that carries a serious jail term and unlimited fine.

You must cease offering services even to freinds until your MLR is in place. (actually espechially freinds as I find that freinds and family are the worst for thinking that they can slip something through and you won't pick it up because of personal relationships... lol).

If you are registed for MLR then they know that you are self employed so time to sort out everything else.

Asset Cap

Doesn't matter what sort of business it is the principles of expense vs capitalisation remain constant

It's all a matter of professional judgement and client materialarity.

below the following levels an asset would normally be considered immaterial to the financial statements.

0.5% of Turnover

1% of total assets

5% of profit.

As I say though the above is a guideline and one must apply professional judgement as to when to capitalise and when to expense (i.e. I would not capitalise a stapler just because a company was making a loss).

You also need to be considering capital allowances including AIA rather than just the financial reporting side (depreciation).

All in all quite a lot to consider before moving forwards.

Beware the barter transaction that you seem to have entered into, don't assume that finding a suitably qualified accountant witin your budget is a given, get registered self employed (and MLR through HMRC is not already in place as I don't want to be sending you a cake with a file in it), consider capital allowances and client materialarity levels.. Sure that I've missed bits out but you get the general flow.

Hope that helps and appologies if any of it comes across at all negatively.

kindest regards,

Shaun.

p.s. right, now where do I send the invoice for the above advice, lol.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Hello Shaun and Bubs,

As I`ve just read this post I realise that I am in the same situation by giving advice to a friend who is looking to start his self employment. I`ve told him different scenarios of earnings and how much he will be charged and what he needs to do to register.
It is just advice and it feels funny to give him an invoice after the discussion. You know your are my friend but now you need to pay a hundred quid.
Maybe giving him an invoice with 99 % discount will do ?

Many thanks,

Kind regards,

Adrian

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Lol,

just advice... Thats the bit that gets us sued.

For a valid contract to be created there must be

- Offer

- Acceptance

- Consideration

to be sued under the contract there must be :

- An enforceable duty of care

- That duty has been breached

- Loss must have resulted

It does not matter whether you charge your freind £1 or £1000 as both are deemed consideration so if you charge a valid contract has been created. (consideration must be sufficient, it need not be adequate).

A further complication is that as you are putting yourself accross as a financial professional you can be held responsible for bad advice because you held yourself out to be knowledgable in a certain area.

The rules on that one are that you are responsibe for

- What you knew

- What you ought to have known

- What you ought to have done about it.

Which is why it is advisable to have PII in place before giving any advice, free or otherwise to anyone.

For the advice to your freind, if they act upon it then they can hold you responsible for it.

Everything above is a massive simplification but its just to give you a framework within which to think about any advice that you give going forwards.

And your get out of jail free card is the equivalent of my strapline. Always advise everyone to seek the advice of a professionally qualified accountant.

Whether they do or not is down to them but the fact is that you advised them that they should.

All in all, avoid advising anyone about anything until you have PII that covers you for such advice. Put a strap line on your posts as a disclaimer of responsibility, don't charge at all if the charge is insufficient for the risk, record everything in writing that can be stored in a client permanent file.

Also, on a linked note. People are your freinds outside business. Inside your business they are clients and should be treated no different to any other client (a lesson many learn the hard way by having freinds and family walk all over them (often unpaid) during the early years of their business).

kind regards,

Shaun.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Many thanks Shaun,
This is other thing that I have to consider.

1. I`ve tried to find where in my profile settings I can add the strap line with disclaimer of responsibility , but could not find it.
If you please would be kind to advise,

2. Also, I think the data of my computer should be backed up somehow as you have just said,
How are you dealing with this, do you have a second hard drive where you store all the information ?
Or store it on cloud ?

3. I do not want to open again the discussion about software but in a couple of days I am thinking to buy VT or Quickbooks, wich one seems easier for me as a beginner ?

Many thanks,

Adrian

honeyman1980 · Newbie

Yes shamus I think you are right, I really want to become an accountant and was maybe using the bookkeeping situation as a stop gap because I can't find employment....I'm just getting really frustrated as everything I go for they require experience but no one is willing to give you any.. Have you any advice on how I can get experience?

I think this forum is really good for giving advice as I'm finding it very helpful, thanks everyone

Sarah

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Adrian99 wrote:
Many thanks Shaun,
This is other thing that I have to consider.

1. I`ve tried to find where in my profile settings I can add the strap line with disclaimer of responsibility , but could not find it.
If you please would be kind to advise,
Click on your username
Click on Signature
put your strap line in there and save.

2. Also, I think the data of my computer should be backed up somehow as you have just said,
How are you dealing with this, do you have a second hard drive where you store all the information ?
Or store it on cloud ?
I only store in the cloud on a transient basis to pass information between computers.
I have the data on both on and off network PCs plus a secure external harddrive.
Backups are stored with a japanese industruial standard date format prefix to hold them in the correct sequence and to differentiate them from original files.

3. I do not want to open again the discussion about software but in a couple of days I am thinking to buy VT or Quickbooks, wich one seems easier for me as a beginner ?
You should not be thinking about being a beginner but rather which you will need more. Both have their strengths with QB excelling at bookkeeping and VT being a great all round accounting package but lacking some of QBs bells and whistles on the bookkeeping front.
Ideally you should trial both to determine which you favour as that will become you software of choice going forwards.
You will pick other software along the way but just like girlfreinds the one that you will be most comfortable with will invariably be the first.
I love VT, others (I'm thinking of you here Amanda) love QB. Whichever you go with there will be reasons to regret not purchasing the other so consider it a marraige and don't enter into it lightly (says the guy with three divorces under his belt).

Many thanks,

Adrian

Kind regards,

Shaun.

Missey · Veteran Member

Thanks Shaun for the wise feedback - greatly appreciated and a lot to take on board. I didn't realise that by just giving advice for free i could be sued. Surely I can't be sued if I tell a friend or work colleague in passing that they need to get their tax return in by a certain date or are you just referring to potential clients?

In any case, I plan to keep my advice to myself until I register for MLR with HMRC even if my husband asks me a question. Lol -

How did you manage to arrange exchanging clients for supervision with an accountant?

Do you think it would be an idea to ask someone on the forum who is qualified and working in my area if they would be willing to exchange a client for supervision (subject to my friend being willing to pay an accountant). I guess this is where the rubber hits the road with my friend in that she is either willing or not to pay for a bookkeeper and perhaps an accountant?

Bubs

ilsm · Senior Member

Missey,

I don't think you need to worry about giving bits of "free advice" to people - we all do it, and none of us is afraid of being sued for doing so. Where you do need to be cautious is where some kind of relationship has developed based on your position as a bookkeeper, and that relationship is either contractual, as with your beautician friend, or is one where the other person places trust in your expertise, and you advise him knowing this.

So, if an acquaintance asks you about a problem with his tax return, and you say, "I'd deal with it this way," then if he follows that suggestion, he does so on his own responsibility. Even if he has paid you £25 as a thank-you for your time, he can't sue you because there was no intention to create a binding agreement and no consensus ad idem (meeting of the minds between you) as to what any such agreement should be.

If he asks you as a friend/relation/colleague, and you know he is expecting reliable advice because he knows you are a professional bookkeeper, then even though no contract is concluded, you could be assuming a duty of care by giving advice, and you may be held to have been professionally negligent if that advice is unsuitable. (The only consolation is that damages for breach of duty are usually less those for breach of contract.)

Where he asks you as a professional bookkeeper, and you give your advice expecting to be rewarded for doing so (whether with money, beauty treatments or chickens), then that renders you liable in contract for the suitability of the advice you give.

So, it all depends upon the nature of the (legal) relationship between you, and your intentions at the time.

Iain

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi bubs,

a well phrased answer from Iain above.

Its a thin line that we walk between what is and is not considered advice given in a professional capacity.

I try to gear each response that I make to the recipient but this thread is attracting quite a lot of interest so some of the answers are not perhaps how I would phrase them for those reading them.

the key is giving advice in a deemed professional capacity and as touched upon by both Iain and myself above a legal or constructive relationship must exist in order to be sued for advice given.

My supervision is through a chartered that I have known for a very long time.

The forums probably not the place to find the right supervision within your area. But, you will need to start thinking about networking.

When you start going to networking events you will meet respresentitives of chartered and chartered certified practices (there will always be one at every meeting). Don't ask straight away but after a few weeks of going and making freinds with local business people see if you can work supervision into a conversation espechially if you have a client or two that you are willing to swap.

Make them realise that it would be a mutually beneficial relationship rather than one sided where you would be looking to pass on the clients that you could not handle.

They may even throw back a few your way that are too small or too time consuming for the return for them to be bothered with (careful you don't end up being given a mixed bag of non payers).

Note that some accountants will not even want to acknowledge your existance but for every one like that there are at least half a dozen like the people that you have come to recognise on this site.

The issue is though that as each networking event only allows one accountant if the accountant there doesn't jell with you then your only option is to change networking events until you find one where you do get on with the accountant member of the group.

(I remember attending one event where one guy would not acknowledge the existance of anyone that he thought was of no use to him. That said though I think that he managed to alienate himself from everyone ion the group including those that he wanted to talk to who he seemed to forget were freinds with the one's that he was ignoring!)

HTH,

kind regards,

Shaun.

p.s. never tell husbands anything. We just go and tell everyone down the pub filling in the bits that we can't remember and that gets us in all sorts of trouble, lol.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Shamus wrote:
Adrian99 wrote:

2. Also, I think the data of my computer should be backed up somehow as you have just said,
How are you dealing with this, do you have a second hard drive where you store all the information ?
Or store it on cloud ?
I only store in the cloud on a transient basis to pass information between computers.
Is there any specific website that you are using ?

I have the data on both on and off network PCs plus a secure external harddrive.
So, should I buy an external hard disk to store the data ?
Backups are stored with a japanese industruial standard date format prefix to hold them in the correct sequence and to differentiate them from original files.
I fell like that rabbit again :) after this last sentence.

Many thanks,

Adrian

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Adrian99 wrote:
Shamus wrote:
Adrian99 wrote:

2. Also, I think the data of my computer should be backed up somehow as you have just said,
How are you dealing with this, do you have a second hard drive where you store all the information ?
Or store it on cloud ?
I only store in the cloud on a transient basis to pass information between computers.
Is there any specific website that you are using ?
Dropbox

I have the data on both on and off network PCs plus a secure external harddrive.
So, should I buy an external hard disk to store the data ?
Or a few USBs (I find they break more often than external hard drives)

Backups are stored with a japanese industrial standard date format prefix to hold them in the correct sequence and to differentiate them from original files.
I fell like that rabbit again :) after this last sentence.
Sorry, Japanese Industrial Standard format is CCYY-MM-DD. It was adopted by IBM as their default standard.

Many thanks,

Adrian

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Thank you Shaun for the useful information.

Have a lovely day.

Adrian

Missey · Veteran Member

Thanks Shaun, Iain, Adrian for your help.

Bubs

Amanda · Expert

Only 3 divorces Shaun??? I thought it was about 5?

ClawzCTR · Guru

I use the same file format method as you Shamus, but had no idea it was called that! Being in the MOD we use the same format, but i though that was the MOD not the Japs! lol

How weird!

Missey · Veteran Member

Adrian99 wrote:
Hello Bubs,

I am in the same situation as you,
I might say that the Bookcert business kit may give you tons of advice on starting your business, although you need to keep an eye on latest industry developments as new software etc etc, going to exhibitions as Accountex (where I have meet accountants who encouraged me to open my own biz) and networking with other accountants or bookkeepers as much as you can.
The Kit gives you also a piece of software based on excel that is very useful for bookeeping for soletraders and small companies, samples of letters to clients.

As questions could be :
Turnover ?
Transactions per month ?
No of Employees ?
How long the business was establish ?
Who has done the accounting before you ? in case that they change the accountant you need to get in touch with the accountant that was working with them before you

I think a lot of ethics elements have to be considered here that are in the AAT books.

The accountancy is a field when you are always learning so this is why I ave decided to open my own business, because no matter how long I will work as an employee there will still not be the specific info I need.

Hope to hear from you soon,

Have a great day !

Adrian

Hi Adrian

It appears that we are both in a similar situation and so I wondered how you went about getting a chartered/certified accountant to verify your work so as to get the relevant experience for full AAT membership status.

Shaun has already replied (thank you very much Shaun) but as you are in a similar position to me I would be grateful of hearing your experience and from those of you who also started out with very little or no accounting experience. I really think the AAT should have some sort of scheme to assistant qualified students in having their work experience supervised by a body of AAT qualified members or the like.

Not wishing to sound negative but my head hurts from all the brick walls I keep bumping into. Lol. Although I am grateful for the solid training of AAT if I had known from the start that AAT give no assistance to students in gaining the relevant work experience then I probably wouldnt have signed up with AAT.

Off to bed now before I hit another breeze block.

Bubs

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Hello Bubs,

On this one I have recently discovered that networking is the key. I need to know people who want to share their knowledge and experience with a greenhorn like me.
What I have done / want to do :
- I ve been to Accountex exhibition,
- Call accountants in my area and book a 15 min consultation (I think this could be free) to introduce myself and explain what I want
- Go to as much accountancy related events as I can

I would like to ask the members of ICB if the London monthly meeting is also open to AAT members.

Many thanks,

Good night Bubs,

Adrian

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Even though you get considerably more than 15 min of my time free I think that attempting to get a solid chunk of 15 mins of time from an accountant would not go down well (I personally would not entertain chatting to someone in my office for 15 minutes unless there was some advantage in it for me).

lol, I've got this vision now of some of the "colourful" language you would get to hear if you attempted to book any time for no outlay with some of my chartered freinds.

Actually, you missed being on here off your list. Tut, should be the first entry.

All the best,

Shaun.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

This is true,

Today I ve been to service my bike.
A couple of yards away I ve seen an accountancy practice which I have planned for months to go in and say hi.
I ve done the mistake of going in today dressed extremely casual (T shirt and jeans), to see who s in.

The answer: Just leave your cv and we`ll call you. No collaboration, no nothing.

But, I did got their business card. :)

I ve realised one more time that this forum is one of the best things that can happen to someone who want to do this as a career.

Best regards,

Adrian

Missey · Veteran Member

Thanks Adrian and Shaun. I agree with Shaun in that I don't think as an accountant I would be giving up 15 mins of my time either (unless paid). I've never been to any networking events so I will have to start looking for ones in my area.

Have a good day.

Bubs