I`ve worked as self employed and employee. Now I am doing my tax return. No P60 available. What to do ? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Adrian99 · Senior Member

I`ve worked as self employed and employee. Now I am doing my tax return. No P60 available. What to do ?

Sammy76 · Senior Member

Were you employed as of 5th April. If so they have a legal requirement to have provided you with a P60 two months ago. If you had finished working for them before 5th April then you should have had a P45 with the details you need.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Many thanks Sammy,

The period I`ve worked there is 16 July 2012 - 9 Oct 2012.

In the termination letter they ve said that my P45 will be sent to my home address.

This was never happened due to the changing of my address or postal error.

I have found one of the payslips dated 26.09.2012

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

They should still have the payroll records as legally they have to keep them for a number of years (sorry cant recall the number but will defo cover 2012) - so ask them to track back and provide either a P45 or copy payslips for each of the months. The only other way is for you to ring HMRC (perhaps not ideal but)- they should a copy of the P45 and if you give them enough ID then they should be able to let you have the info.

You will need to keep everything you have for 5 years from the date of the last tax return (so call it 6 years and you should be safe!)

MarkS · Expert

Contact HMRC.

They will have details of what your gross pay and tax deducted was for the tax year on their file.

Ask them to send you details of your file.

You should receive it after a couple of weeks.

Mark

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Many thanks Sammy, Joanne and Mark,

Happily, after some more calls I had the chance to finally speak with them and they`ve said they will send the P45 by email.

I want to save space.
As Self employed am I allowed by HMRC to scan everything and keep in jpeg fprmat (in a safe folder and back up on cloud online) or am I deemed to keep everything on paper ?

Have a lovely weekend,

Adrian

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Thats actually a good question.

hypathetically you could scan documents and HMRC do not forbid such an approach, but, anything kept electronically is very easy to manipulate and whether such would be considered catagoric stand alone evidence in an investigation is questionable.

Also, in the event of an inspection would not the inspector then need to look at every file? Thats going to be time consuming and certainly not win any brownie points with them.

Is not a better sollution a compromise one where you keep everything in origional form for six years (five plus current) then scan (as there are situatons where HMRC can go right back to the start of a business).

Also note (and a lot of people forget this) that whenever you scan a document you must scan both sides of it.

not a yes / no answer but hope that it helps,

Shaun.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Adrian
You are welcome, glad to help!

HMRC say you can scan everything, see link and extract below. From a personal perspective (and speaking from experience) if you can scan documents on to PDF it is better, rather than jpeg, as they are easier to read. jpeg format is sometimes illegible especially with some A4 docs with lots of info on it, although not all!)

Link to HMRC http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/record-keeping/#2

Extract from HMRC
How to keep your records
HMRC asks you to keep the original documents which show you've had tax deducted. For example if you're an employee your P60 form from your employer (which shows your pay and tax information for the tax year).
HMRC recommend you keep all the original documents you receive. This does not mean you need to keep them on paper. Most records can be scanned and kept electronically on a computer or a storage device such as a CD or memory stick. Make sure that whatever you use to keep records you:
have both the front and back of documents
can easily access them so you can pass them to HMRC
For information about mobile applications to help small businesses with record keeping please see the section 'More useful links' at the end of this page.

Enjoy the weekend!

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Oh I forgot to add about being time consuming if anyone needs to see it (as usual Shaun beat everyone to it! wink ) Plus would need to be labelled VERY carefully when you save it so you can locate everything easily, bearing in mind over 6 years you could have a lot.

Make sure you back it up in several places too (I use an external hardrive, memory sticks and dropbox, but Ive seen comments on here and am aware not everyone likes the latter.)

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Many thanks Shaun,

I think I will be better safe than sorry and keep everything.

I have started my self employment on 2009. Because of the lack of knowledge (and funds to afford a professional) I have done some minor mistakes in the past.
Like not apportion the private use of expenses from my motorbike and maybe another minor things.
Should I go back and do everything again from 2009 onwards ?

Many thanks,

Adrian

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Adrian
Do you keep detailed mileage records? If you own the bike personally then you can claim mileage expenses at a set rate per mile and this rate includes an amount for general wear and tear. Care when calculating start/end place of your claim - eg cannot claim from home to place of work. Rates are published annually by HMRC, i think the rate for this year is 20p for bikes for the first 10000 miles. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/travel.htm

There are some webinars that HMRC run - worth spending time going on them and they cover all sorts and some are specifically for the self employed. I would say try to have a read of some stuff from the HMRC website before you go on and go armed with a list of questions (dont worry even if they are daft ones) - you can ask questions via your PC and the presenters will answer each and every one. You can get a lot out of it if other people ask questions too as they may cover things you have not thought of yet.

Here is the link to book the webinars: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/webinars/self-employed.htm

This years helpsheet for completing your tax return as self employed may be of use too:- http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/hs222.pdf#page=3

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

I scan all my invoices. I name them with the reference number that I put into Sage. I do the same for clients who send me electronic info via dropbox. Usually I encourage them to save the filename showing the supplier and date, and then I just pop the ref number in as I post.

For example: 1 - Post Office 17.06.13

I save my PDF's every couple of days, and rename them as they get posted.

HTH :)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Foxy,

you will find it beneficial to adopt the Japanese Industrial standard date format of CCYY-MM-DD which means that when you sort your data it will end up in the right sequence.

i.e. 2013-06-17 or 2013.06-17 if you prefer.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Thank you all for help and advice

Dear Joanne,
I ve started just in the last month to keep mileage details. As far as I know I have to choose between:

1. claiming mileage allowance 24 p per mile

2. claiming all costs e.g. fuel, service and insurance and take 30% off for private use
and also claim AIA if I buy a new motorbike for business use as a courier this should be considered plant

I hope this is right.

Dear Michelle,
At my last job those guys had a useful scanner, just need to insert a stick and it places automatically what was scanned on the memory stick.
I do not know what make was that but it was a little bigger than a printer.

Dear Shaun,

Nice trick with the Japanese standard, I will make a note

I wish everybody a perfect Sunday.

Adrian

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

Shamus wrote:
Hi Foxy,

you will find it beneficial to adopt the Japanese Industrial standard date format of CCYY-MM-DD which means that when you sort your data it will end up in the right sequence.

i.e. 2013-06-17 or 2013.06-17 if you prefer.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Hey Shaun

I do this for filing my letters.. but with the invoices, the reference number at the beginning dictates the order, which is how I want it :)

My letter system uses something like "2013 07 14 - SA return cover letter" and each letter is stored in the clients own folder, just like it woud be in a filing cabinet..

PS - Of the name "1 - Post Office 17.06.13" only the "1" goes in the Ref box in Sage, the rest is just for extra ease of locating.

-- Edited by FoxAccountancyServices on Sunday 14th of July 2013 08:22:02 PM

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

Adrian99 wrote:
Dear Michelle,
At my last job those guys had a useful scanner, just need to insert a stick and it places automatically what was scanned on the memory stick.
I do not know what make was that but it was a little bigger than a printer.

Hi Adrian

My scanner actually does this, but because I also scan things that are not invoices, the sequences falls out of sync.. I can reset it to any number I like, but I just find it easier to rename. This also lets me know that's its been dealt with. :)

I LOVE technology!

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Thank you Michelle.

Is it possible to reveal the name of the scanner ?

Also, do you have that lovely software that shifts away the info from the invoice directly into QuickBooks ?

Many thanks,

Adrian

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

HI Adrian

I don't use Quickbooks, apart from to open year end back ups.

My printer is an Epson Workforce WP 4535. Its an all in one, has a good "per page" print cost and it prints pretty decent for an inkjet (I've always been a laserjet girl!) It has a document feeder, which I find invaluable.

What is the software that imports to QB?

Adrian99 · Senior Member

I have discovered this one on the Accountex Exhibition,

celaton.com/solutions/accountancy

Please note that I have not used this software so I am in no position to recommend it.
But if it actually does what it says, it should save some working hours per day.

Thank you for the scan tip.

Have a great day.

Adrian

Adrian99 · Senior Member

I see that each colour has its own cartridge, this is smart as you don`t need to replace everything when only one colour is out.

Can you also print on 250 gr paper ?

Cheers,

Adrian

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Adrian said I ve started just in the last month to keep mileage details. As far as I know I have to choose between:

1. claiming mileage allowance 24 p per mile

2. claiming all costs e.g. fuel, service and insurance and take 30% off for private use
and also claim AIA if I buy a new motorbike for business use as a courier this should be considered plant

I hope this is right.

-------------------------------------------

Shaun/Michelle - can you help. Im confused myself - I was thinking of taking the mileage rate of 45p per mile but then got something from the HMRC website at weekend about allowable expenses which states I can take a proportion of the vehicle costs such as service/insurance/MOT etc dependent on percentage I use my car it for business use. Am I right in saying you can only do one or the other???

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Joanne,

yes you are right.

mileage rates are compensation paid to the car owner for the use of the owners vehicles with all costs (except parking and toll charges) the responsibility of the vehicle owner.

The alternative approach is to proportionally maintain / run the car through the business which for some older cars with high maintenance, repair and running costs can prove more beneficial.

For all of the clients that I have worked with only one was better off personally running the car through the business than taking the mileage and they ended up going down the mileage route for simplicity over the personal / business usage division.

HTH,

Shaun.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Thanks Shaun. Reckon the mileage route is easier for me personally.

Adrian - hope that helps you too!

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Hello Shaun and Joanne,

Yes, it sure is easier, but as Shaun said not the best choice for a high mileage motorbike like mine who has high service costs.

24 p for mile is for motorbikes only

I think my solution is :

1. Claim 5500 miles estimate for the year X 24 p = £ 1320

or

2. Claim insurance 270

fuel 600

service 720

Total £ 1590 - 30 % private use = £ 1113

+ AIA for the second hand one year old motorbike I want to buy £ 1700

Total = £ 1113 + £1700 = £ 2813

So, I think is better to claim £ 2813 instead of £1320.

Please, if you could advise me.

Many thanks,

Adrian

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

2813 is just in year 1 (and thats too much, see nelow).

Year 2 would be £1113 using option 2 but £1320 using option 1.

remember that servicing costs can vary but mileage remains constant.

Also you forgot to reduce the AIA by the personal use % but thats only year one anyway (so £1700 becomes £1190 reducing the option 2 figure to £2303).

Also remember the cashflow side of this in that mileage is paid to you but option 2 is only paper calculations,

Its swings and roundabouts but when you choose one you cannot swap and change (so no AIA this year and mileage next).

kind regards,

Shaun.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Many thanks Shaun,

Yes, I think the solution that should be considered is to claim the mileage as it is easier and in the long term more suitable.

As I am trying to have two trades. e.g. courier motorbike and bookkeeper,

may I claim separate mileage for bookkeeping business if I travel with the bike to meet a client for bookkeeping ?

Thank you,

Adrian

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Adrain,

the bike would be yours so having two businesses you would either be charging one business or the other, not both at the same time.

So, imagine the scenario.

Deliver goods 10 miles away (charge 10 * 24p to the courier business)

visit client 2 miles from wher package delivered. (charge 2 * 24p to the bookkeeping business)

Return journey is (say) 12 miles. which of the two businesses do you charge the mileage to as you cannot charge it to both.

The only fair distribution of the mileage would be a further 2 miles to the bookkeeping business and 10 miles to the courier business as only 4 of the 24 miles were peculiar to the bookkeeping busines.

Alternatively you could say that you dropped off the package en route and all of the mileage is charged to the bookkeeping business which cannot be right as the costs of the one business are being subsidised by the other business.

Gets messy doesn't it running the same vehicle with two businesses.

Adrian99 · Senior Member

Many thanks Shaun,

It is much better to keep the things simple and keep mileage for courier biz only.

Wish you a lovely and sunny day.

Adrian