Thanks for the reply, it does include the exams and fees but then my tutor told me I would need to pay an extra £10 per mock exam and I cannot be put forward for it without buying those, I feel it has been a lot of money for very little help and feel as though I am floundering, I am procrastinating an awful lot because I can't get my head around it, although I have understood your interpretation so thank you.
I hope James can wade in on this post ... it would help to know whether my experience and cost is the norm with them or if I am exceptionally unlucky, either way, with the Nov 13 deadline looming fast I doubt I would have passed it by then.
Do you need these quals to be BK or can you practice this role at a firm without having them ?
My banking was also part back office (waste, bank recs etc) then front office, customer service, mortgage advisors asst, cashier, wouldn't go back now though, too many sales involved !!
Thanks
Zo
-- Edited by Thorney77 on Sunday 21st of July 2013 03:58:42 PM
I am so glad I found this forum, it is hard enough to study a distance learning course without feeling truly alone.
I have a background in banking and insurance with a small bit of accounts experience within my previous roles, I am currently studying to be an AICB and am finding it a lot harder than I thought as banking and mortgages are the complete opposite of this role. Is anyone else finding it hard to understand or has anyone else found it difficult in the past ?
I am number crazy and love su do ku or anything number related where I can help people, so it's disappointing that I am not able to pick it up straight away, especially as the tutor is rubbish. I have studied for CeMAP as well but that was a lot easier to grasp than this subject.
Its a common misconception that this business is all about numbers. They're important but almost more important is correct formatting and knowledge of why things need to be done in certain ways.
It is an issue that some of those teaching could not actually do the job whilst other tutors are excellent.
There is a third category that knows the job too well and forgets that the student does not and needs help to get to where they need to be.
what specifically are you having issues with?
If your answer is everything is it possible to take a break from the course and we'll tell you the right books to read before coming back to the course... Or simply abandoning it and going a different route to where you want to be.
And on that matter where do you want to be?
I'm assuming self employed rather than employed considering that you went the ICB route.
looking forwards to chatting,
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I have been doing the books for my pet services company and thought that BK was the way to go for me, it probably still is but the hardest part is getting my head around the debit and credit side and what they mean as well as why certain ledgers are used ... I think this sounds a bit unintelligent and I promise that I am not but I didn't realise what the bookkeepers role really was, I guess I hadn't used ledgers before or that the concept of debits means it's money in and credit side is money out, banking is the opposite of this. I wish I had researched it more and I thought I had but I had only read the first few pages of the first level and it didn't mention the ledgers, so I signed up and ran out of time to return it. Then I thought, ok I can get my head round this but all my IFS teachings and practice I had from the banking side keep getting in the way and it seems impossible to get my head around the concepts.
Our company is quite easy, we get paid on the day and then note those in the diary and cash book, then keep the receipts for petrol etc and give it all to the accountant, there is no VAT output because we aren't VAT registered or provide a service with VAT included.
It would be great to become qualified as I can work from home for self employed people before studying for the MICB qual, if this first part hasn't thrown me by then, I just feel that £859 is a lot to waste and I feel guilty for changing just because it is a bit harder than I thought. I don't like the fact that I have no tutorial support though and there isn't anyone I know who does this job so finding someone to chat to about it is difficult.
Ouch, that sounds an awful lot of money for AICB.... Hope that at least includes student membership fee and exam fee's.
Bookkeeping really shouldn't be that hard once you have the base concepts in place but until you have that it may feel like trying to build a house on quicksand.
Ok, lets start at the top.
eventually you will remember whats what without thinking about it but for starters find an anchorage point.
You know that money coming into the bank must be a debit and money going out a credit.
Why is it a debit? Well, thats because the bank owes the money to someone else, the person that deposited it there (also the reasoning why matters are opposit from the banks perspective).
If your banking head is getting in the way start with the debits and credits start by thinking of owners capital. The owner puts money into the business bank account which means that the business owes them the money. That must mean that the Capital account must have a credit (a liability to the owner of the business) so the opposit of that is a debit to the bank account.
There you go everything nicely balanced. Bank (asset) = Capital (Liability)
You will have already come to grips with the idea of double entry being that for every debit there will be an equal and opposit credit.
What about when you make payments?
Well, you Credit the bank as money at the bank is being reduced and you debit whatever it is that is being paid so that it is recorded where the money went.
The same amount of credit remains in the owners account as no matter what the business does with the money it will owe the owner the money until it settles its debt with the owner.
You see what we'ver done. We've made either the bank or Capital account our anchorage point.
Imagine that you borrow money (a iability) you would credit the liability account and debit the bank in theat the borrowed money has been put in the bank (same as you did with the owners capital).
There are some important concepts to get your head around such as what is an asset and what is a liability (and the reality lies in control, not as most people believe mere possession).
When you are a little further into your studies you will go to the balance sheet and start patching together the balance sheet to the profit and loss at which time the debits and credits will start to make a lot more sense when you know that the two sides of the balance sheet have to be in perfect balance.
There is something called the accounting equation. There are a few variances of the same thing but the version that I always think of is :
Capital = Assets - liabilities (you might also have come accross Assets = Capital + Liabilities. Its the same just presented differently)
totally appreciate that the above sounds very simplistic but I find that to think of everything in its simplest terms for starters makes everything else fall into place.
If you are not getting any tutor support complain to the ICB about the training provider.
All training providers have to be licened by the ICB to offer their courses and if people do not complain about shoddy training providers then the ICB will continue to recommend them.
For a contact at the ICB James Carter often posts on here and would be a good point of contact for genuine grievances against approved training providers.
kind regards,
Shaun.
p.s. I'm also from a banking background. Back rather than front office. Predominantly devlelopment and maintenance of products and services for both retail and corporate.
Trust me, you will quickly start thinking about debits and credits from the correct perspective once you are thinking from the perspective of a knowledge anchorage point. Once you have that you will be surprised how quickly your knowledge base grows.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Yes, my eldest boys just abandoned being an advisor to become a recruitment consultant due to the sales expectation ob bank frontline staff. He says that he was a bank manager but to be honest I find it difficult to find anyone in a branch who isnt!
You don't need any qualifications to be a bookkeeper but you do need the knowledge so nothing that you are learning is a waste even if you decide to set up under your own banner rather than a professional bodies.
There are several current threads on the site related to experience before going solo.
A good peice of advice may be to look at all of the threads of Adrian99 who is also just starting out as there is quite a lot of sound advice from myself and others in the replies to him.
The one thing that you cannot do is offer bookkeeping services to the public without Money Laundering supervision but you can get that directly from HMRC (I believe current price is £110 p.a.).
It is also stringly recomended that you obtain PII insurance espechially in this litigous society that we now live in.
Anything that you do or say may cause you to need to put the client back into the position that they would have been in had they not acted upon your advice or you had not applied the input that you did.
It doesn't take much before the most monor error can wipe you out financially so as I say, PII is something that whilst not compulsory you really should think of it as such.
You will also need some decent software (Quickbooks / Sage / VT, etc.) Often clients systems may dictate the software that you adopt. Again, there is plenty of good advice around the site from people who have hit the issue of what software to purchase for their practice. (see some of the Adrian replies plus the "convince me that I don't need Sage" thread).
I would however not recommend setting up until you have mastered all of the fundamentals of bookkeeping and then to attempt to get a permanent role at least for starters in order to gain experience.
To go permie you are really starting with the wrong qualification and would have been better going AAT rather than ICB which unfortunately, despite teaching people a good foundation in the subject it is not a qualification widely recognised by employers.
That said, a good many do go straight to self employment with varying degree's of success and for those ICB is a sound body to ensure that they maintain legal complaince and offers a framework within which to run their business.
In the short term I would advise purchasing the book Business Accounts for book-keeping and financial accounting courses by David Cox (Osbourne books) which is written is a nice easy to understand style with lots of examples and should enhance your other studies.
Hope that helps,
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Brilliant thanks, I have indemnity insurance for my pet services company, we're insured for up to £3,000,000 would this be ok to use if it's included in the wording ? I wouldn't practice without it.
Trying to find a placement where you don't need prior experience is the hard part, I have been searching for 10 months, they all seem to want you to be AAT, or PQ ... very annoying !! It is also disconcerting to hear that the ICB isn't recognised with employers, is there any point to it ? Wish I had found this forum in Nov ... what a waste of money !!
Your advice is very useful and am grateful, it seems you know a lot about this subject, if I decided to go down the AAT route is this also distance learning and who is the better provider please ?
Apparently Rec Cons have a lot of sales pressure as well, good money though but only if you make the sales, my brother and brother in law are RC's and they are barely at home, it's definitely blood money but then most firms expect that these days !!
for distance learning AAT take a look at Premier Training and Eagle Education.
The best contacts are Nick at Premier and Sonya and Eagle.
Both are absolutely devoted to the betterment of the profession, love the subject matter and know their stuff inside out.
ICB is good for those who are looking only at self employment but even for those not going down that path what ICB teaches is universal no matter which body you are studying with.
Bookkeeping is bookkeeping and it doesn't matter if it has an ICB, IAB, AAT or whatever label slapped on it.
Everything that you are learning now will help you later whether you continue with the ICB or not.
Also worth noting is that there is something with AAT known as a skills check to test your bookkeeping knowledge. You only get one go at it (so no pressure there then!!!) but score well in it and you get to skip AAT level II regardless of which body that you studied with and exemptions that such might carry.
Mentally deduct the saved AAT level II from your AICB fees and it improves the sour taste that such may currently be leaving.
Nick or Sonya would be able to fill you in further on the AAT skills check.
HTH,
kindest regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Not getting tutor support means that you have bought the most expensive set of text books available. I would raise this with your training provider and give them chance to rectify this, before you go to the ICB.
We have a test which you can do for free which helps you decide which level you can start on which you can have as many goes on as you like, and it will be marked by a qualified accountant, unlike the AAT one.
The ICB is really good for self employment and you can get a practice licence really quickly. However, you are right at the moment the ICB isn't as recognised as the AAT by employers or other awarding bodies.
Shaun is right, your course fees should mean that you should be able to skip level 2. Although i would suggest that you at least buy the basic costing book, as the ICB doesn't contain any management accounting.
If you have any problems please dont hesitate to ask, you have found the right place!
Kind regards
Nick
__________________
Nick
Nick Craggs FMAAT ACA AAT Distance Learning Manager
Thanks for the reply, it does include the exams and fees but then my tutor told me I would need to pay an extra £10 per mock exam and I cannot be put forward for it without buying those, I feel it has been a lot of money for very little help and feel as though I am floundering, I am procrastinating an awful lot because I can't get my head around it, although I have understood your interpretation so thank you.
I hope James can wade in on this post ... it would help to know whether my experience and cost is the norm with them or if I am exceptionally unlucky, either way, with the Nov 13 deadline looming fast I doubt I would have passed it by then.
Do you need these quals to be BK or can you practice this role at a firm without having them ?
My banking was also part back office (waste, bank recs etc) then front office, customer service, mortgage advisors asst, cashier, wouldn't go back now though, too many sales involved !!
Thanks
Zo
-- Edited by Thorney77 on Sunday 21st of July 2013 03:58:42 PM
Hi Zoe
Welcome to the forum.
The majority of ICB Training Providers will provide you with a mock exam when you have completed your course assignments. We provide our students with one but we also encourage our students to pay the £10 and also take the ICB mock exam as this will get the student used to the format of the ICB real exam which is great preparation and besides this should you fail the ICB mock you can then go back to your tutor and brush up on your studies again before taking the real exam. ICB Training Providers also need to perform well when it comes to ICB exam student pass rates. I would suggest contacting your provider with your concerns but feel certain that they will have your best interests at heart.
