I hope I'm in the right place but I'm sure the moderators will move me if not.
I'm Peter, long term unemployed/Jobseeker and looking to get into Self Employment as a Bookkeeper. I am terrified as I never wanted to be self employed and this may now be my only route.
I have too many questions and am having trouble tracking down answers. I am AAT Qualified and CIMA Managerial (part-Q). I also have 20 years experience in accounts/finance from banking in the 80's through P/L work and supervision, to my last role as management accountant.
I realise I have all the knowledge I need to run as a bookkeeper but most of it is rusty or theoretical.
Practice Certificate - I cannot claim these from my previous Professional Bodies as they will no longer have me back as a member (long story, another time) but there is nothing stopping me working in bookkeeping. Is the HMR&C route obligatory? Is it easy to gain (seems to be a matter of "buying" the ability - and I am confident I would pass the "fitness" paper)? Does it give any benefits?
What services do bookkeepers actually provide? It sounds like a silly question but, as an accountant, I need to know where to draw the line both in order to save money and to limit my liability for providing services beyond that which we are allowed? What is the market like for prospective clients?
Insurance? What and through who?
And are there "umbrella" companies who take you on as a home worker but provide support, advice and or tech/IT/software?
Sorry my opening greeting is so long - My head is abuzz and I'm having trouble. please share your knowledge and experience?
You've got me interested now in why AAT or CIMA would not have you back.
MLR is compulsory. For those without a professional body then it has to be via HMRC.
Lack of MLR cover carries a two year jail term plus unlimited fine.
Market varies greatly depending where in the country you are.
Clients tend to want cheaper accountants rather than bookkeepers. Although some larger small firms do still want what is basically an outsourced admin function in order to reduce their accountants fees.
Things have changed a lot since the 80's in accounting but as always bookkeeping is fundamentally the same although you need to be abreatst of the latest tax act and GAAP.
Good books to get you back up to speed would be ACCA paper F8 for financial reporting and Taxation (melville) for tax, plus maybe ACCA paper F6. If you get the Kaplan texts there are plenty of examples to work through (theoretical rather than telling you which forms to fill in).
I think for umbrella companies really you are looking at the franchise market where you pay through the nose often (but not always) for very little in return.
Software can end up quite expensive.
A lot of the market uses Sage. Often where that software is not the right software for them.
Sage licencing is quite steep where you are basically charged per client.
Quickbooks is 100 clients, VT is unlimited.
For tax, Taxcalc is quite popular.
For Payroll 12pay or Moneysoft.
For PII cover try Arlington (see top of page for special offers).
probably lots that I've forgotten to write but if you have a nosey through the site you will see your questions coming up a lot.
Welcome to the forum,
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Thank you for the full and eloquent response - you have given me a lot to think about and I will certainly research the Kaplan texts.
Professional bodies have rejected me due to a criminal conviction (nothing financial or fraudulent) and their broad strokes policies on convictions. As I said before, I'll have no problems passing the HMR&C Fitness papers.
I may even seek bookkeepers in my area (Colchester, UK) who may like a free-worker for a couple of weeks so I can get the hang of things.
Thank you for the warm welcome - I regret I may become a needy pain before I can become a helpful contributor!
So can I assume my Father's "all you'll be expected to do is add up takings and deduct expenses for an annual figure for sole-traders/small businessmen" advice is, as I had expected, incorrect? You make it sound like a modern bookkeeper will work both p/l and s/l through to TB and possibly even I.S. and B.S.?
Sounds like a lot of investment and equipment - any advice? Honestly - as a self-employed bookkeeper, what sort of clientele can I expect?
Any muppet with a calculator or Excel can add up columns of figures. If thats all there was to the job there wouldn't be a bookkeeping industry (and I certainly wouldn't be interested enough to be involved with it).
The key to bookkeeping is knowing how to classify data so that it is reported correctly both in the accounts and on the tax returns.
There's not really a lot of investment. How many businesses do you know that you can set up from scratch for under £5k including working capital (Even if you chose Sage as your bookkeeping software of choice).
Clientele varies but main group for me seems to be the ones where the wifes given up trying to do it on the kitchen table all through the ones that need an accountant but want to pay less for their books to be done than they are willing to pay the office cleaner (those tend to regard accounts as a legal necessity rather than a value adding service), to the ones that just don't want to pay accountants rates... Plus a few that are just plain frightened of accountants.
There is also work where clients are basically outsourcing on site data entry where the main expertise required is mastery of the software (those one's will have a seperate accountant).
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
You have no idea how happy you've just made me - thank you! I can do all of that and it's not as scary as I'd envisaged! I've meetings coming up where I can try and source some start-up funding and revision/warm-up/training in skills I've not used for a while.
I think I'm going to like this site - hope you'll keep me around!
Hello again - sorry to bump this post but I'm going round and round in circles - Self-Employed Bookkeeping may well be my only chance of income but I'm having trouble getting started in my head, let alone anywhere else.
Can some-one (who has pre-read the previous posts on this thread) please fill me in on the sort of services a new start-up, one-man bookkeeper set-up should offer? Make it idiot-proof as, after a lengthy unemployment, I'm feeling a little slow and, after being unemployed a while, my confidence is low?
Do clients expect Data Processing Software or can you get by through spread sheet manipulation? If DPS, how do you set the client up if they've shifted from one bookkeeper to you?
Having worked in commerce for the majority of my employment, I can't get past historical data. However, if working as an home-based bookkeeper, should I really only be concerned with the current trading year and the only historical data involved being previous profit/loss and accumulated depreciation?
Effectively I think I need hand holding at start-up but can find no-one to emulate or willing to help, or anyone who'll let me shadow them while I get a feel?
AIA have said, effectively, "No, you fail to meet our criteria". I have responded and asked them to confirm said criteria...
IFA have said "fill in these applications, pay £72 in unrefundable admin charges, and we'll review your ability to join". Bearing in mind the criminal conviction (being fought as untrue/unjust) am I likely to be throwing money away and better off paying the HMR&C - gambling they won't eventually shut out non-affiliated Accountants/Bookkeepers?
I certainly would not invest money on that one that I could not afford to lose.
Do you have a timeline on your case as a success there will change everything.
I don't see HMRC changing the rules any time soon which would give chance for your case to be settled and then move under the umbrella of a professional body later without risking £72 on probably best part of an 80/20 risk of rejection.
kind regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Why not join IAB. You can offer most services working under them and membership is £90 per year plus £70/£80 for the licence (Can't remember exact amount).
And they tell you if you can get membership before you pay anything. The Full AAT qualification itself will give you membership status.
Thank you Shaun you've supported what SWMBO is telling me!
No, no timeline on the case/challenge. Stumbling point has been hit as I've been told by the CCRC there is a valid case for a challenge but they cannot help until I have been rejected by the Appeals Court (The Innocence Project UK hold the same position). SWMBO and I earn too much for legal aid (doesn't everyone now) but too little to hire a solicitor. The Appeal Court is willing to hear un-represented cases but the costs are liable.
If I appeal unrepresented and without the funds, and fail on the first appeal (everyone fails on the first appeal) I would immediately become liable for £20k in transcript fees for calling up the details of the first case. We've not got that and must earn it or seek out a pro-bono solicitor before we can take the risk.
yay - IAB have agreed they need to review my suitability BUT unlike the IFA aren't going to charge me £72 for the privilege. Thank you for the heads-up!
Congrats on getting a bit of good news at last Peter.
They're a quality body with widely recognised qualifications.
They're also this years winner of the BKN supervisory body of the year award.
IAB s either an end in itself or a stepping stone to the likes of IAAP, IFA or if you get that hiccup on your record sorted out any of the main bodies.
Always good to hear a bit of good news.
Hope that everything works out and its a very happy and rewarding relationship with them.
All the best,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
