Just got my Practice Certificate - What can I do - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Jay3 · Senior Member

Just got my Practice Certificate - What can I do

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi,

sorry, you've probably told us this before but practicing certificate with who?

your 93 client calculation doesn't factor in your costs.

Each client is slightly different and generally so are their charges in oerder to reflect those differences.

£400 for very small annual clients sounds about right.

Those requiring hand holding, monthly visits, quarterly reports, etc. will bring in more over the period.

Everything that you ask depends on the quality of clients that you acquire as much as the quantity.

As for what pays most, over the year you will probably make more from bookkeeping for a client but for the highest rate for your time its accounts and tax work at the period end.

I'm adverse to saying a given amount is achievable as that depends upon finding the quantity and quality of client and that part can prove problematic.

The general flow that I get from your message is that you want to change careers but cannot afford to take a step back financially.

I'm going to throw another spanner in the works here.

If you step back from your current career it may prove impossible to break back into it again.

What do you do if you move to accountancy and cannot find the quantity and / or quality of clients and then cannot get back to your existig job as the door has been closed behind you.

I appreciate that you are smarting from the insult of the missed promotion but is that worth losing your house over?

Managers move on, situations change. Just try to do as best you can and if you get to pick up a few clients on the side then management consultancy in banking has changed dramatically as not so long ago if you wanted to get promotion you had to be the first in and the last out so there was no opportunity for work beyond the day job.

As I say, who is your practice certificate with as the real answer to the question may hinge on that (you threw me when you said non audit),

Appologies if this comes across at all negative but I there's an old saying that its never wise to test the water with both feet.

That said, there is also the arguement about burning one's bridges so that one can not withdraw from a decision (taken from advice by Sun Tsu quoted totally out of original context in the Art of War for executives in that in original form its actually talking about burning all bridges but one to give the a route of escape as a trapped enemy is a dangerous enemy but an enemy with a route to withdraw and fearing the loss of that route will take it... But thats not what we're talking about here).

Looking forwards to chatting some more and hopefully convincing you to weather the storm at work rather than risk all for something that may never transpire or if it does, not produce the sort of return that you need quickly enough and as we know, cashflow is everything.

Kind regards,

Shaun.

Jay3 · Senior Member

Hi Shaun,

Thank you very much for your response, it's an ACCA practicing certificate but it doesn't allow me to conduct audit work hence the non audit bit. This is generally only given to those who have the relevant PQE as an auditor.

I'm currently not in banking I work for a University as a Grants Accountant. People issues....usually those with power over me have always been my biggest hurdle in my career. My view of the world is very black and white and I struggle if I perceive something as being unfair. I am learning however and developing a thicker skin but this particular incident cut deep. I am not going to jump ship and risk my home and family though so no worries on that front.

The thought of getting my practice certificate was comforting in a sense as in a worst case scenario I could always do something for myself if ever it all hit the fan. However, I would love to be my own boss and run my own practice but there's a lot to consider and I'm just trying to decide if it something that could be achieved?

"If you step back from your current career it may prove impossible to break back into it again."

I'm not concerned about the above as it stand at the moment they would always take me back a different story if I were still in banking I would imagine.

"Managers move on, situations change. Just try to do as best you can and if you get to pick up a few clients on the side...."

The above is good advice, thanks! Do you think I should just try and build up some custom on the side whilst working in my current role?

"Looking forwards to chatting some more and hopefully convincing you to weather the storm at work rather than risk all for something that may never transpire or if it does, not produce the sort of return that you need quickly enough and as we know, cashflow is everything."

I will weather the storm, thanks but I would like to understand if as part of a longer term plan my own practice is a serious possibility.

Thanks,
Jay3

MarkS · Expert

Jay

Definitely try and build up a client base before you go it alone.

I had about 35 clients before i went full time myself last December.

Best thing I ever done and now have over 100 clients.

It is hard work (and I can see the work looming up to 31 January) but I can work whatever hours I want to work and get to keep all the money less the costs.

Currently have about £80k GRF. Costs probably about £15k per annum leaves £65k net profit less £7.5k salary and say £2.5k mileage recharge leaves £55k taxable profits (pay £11k CT) leaves £44k that can declare as dividends which gives about £50k including salary.

So in short yes you can get £37k equivalent salary working for yourself.

Mark

Jay3 · Senior Member

Hi Mark,

Thanks fo you reply that's sounds promising.

What type of work to you do to obtain such value from you customer base? Can you advise on the types of services I should offer, bookkeeping just isn't enough and I know that technically I can do a lot more as an accountant but have limited experience so still researching.

I would need to do some further training too but I am happy to do it bit by bit.

Thanks very much.
Jay

BTW - When I worked in practice I was a real estate and fund administrator, there was much more money to be made in that area than there was in local business, however I was based in the channel islands at the time so there were tax advantages based on the geography.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi John,

I think that you've identified a real issue in the business in that yourself with ACCA and experience are nervouse about offering services because you know the associated pitfalls and appreciate how much there actually is to this.

Some of those on bookkeeping qualifications are happy to offer accounts, advice and tax services unaware of what regulatory information is missing from their advice and the risk that they put themselves under as by not knowing the advice that they are offering their PII is unlikely to cover them... A good arguement for incorporation even at the lowest level methnks!

On the Audit line I think that its a wise area to avoid even if you've got the right experience and have passed the UK variants of P2 and P7 as it has to be the most litigous area of this work and to my mind the risk isn't worth the return (says the guy taking P7 in December! (International Audit variant)).

As there is nothing to stop you from doing anything (except Audit and insolvency) have you thought about contracting for a while to gain more confidence.

A year of 6 weeks here, 3 months there working through something like Reed plus building a stable of a few clients on the side should really boost your confidence in all areas'.

Of course, that doesn't go hand in hand with holding onto the day job but as I'm reading that you are even considering working for free to gain experience it has to be worth considering as an option.

Speak to the qualied accountants team at Reed and see what they have to say.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing,

kind regards,

Shaun.

MarkS · Expert

Hi Jay

Go and get some practical experience in a small accounts practice where you will get experience in everything ie bookkeeping, accounts, tax, payroll, etc.

Would suggest a minimum of 3 years.

The only thing is given you have no experience in that area you may need to drop your salary expectation level to get a position.

Personally I would say someone with 3 years practical experience and no professional qualification is better coped in the real world than someone in your position who has no relevant practical experience and is ACCA qualified

I worked in practice for 15 years before making the leap to work for myself.

I offer full accounts and tax services including; year end accounts for sole traders, partnerships and limited companies (dont do charities as they usually look for the world for nothing. Had one charity approach me to act as their finance director but without any pay), management accounts, bookkeeping, VAT return, tax returns, payroll (although outsource this), business plans and projections, company formations, company secretarial etc.

Mark

Sweetman Accounting · Veteran Member

Hi Mark.

Do you have any staff working for you (you mention 15k costs) or do you do all the work yourself?

Just interested having recently started my own business.

Kind regards.

David

Amanda · Expert

That's pretty impressive Mark you sound like you are very organised to reach that level.

Do you spend a large proportion of the budget on marketing?

Jay3 · Senior Member

Hi Mark and Shamus,

Thank you very much for your advice it's much appreciated.

In my current role I keep harking on about appropriate development but have come to the realisation that nothing I do here will give me the development I need because ultimately it's not what I want to be doing!
If I accept this fact and stop trying to look for it with my current employer I think I would be a lot happier........so.....where does this leave me??

These are my thoughts:

I need Practice experience but I am not confident enough to jump ship and go straight into working in that kind of setting. I consider the risks associated with such a move too high. This is because I would need a decent salary in order to make the move and that, coupled with my PQE, I feel would create an expectation that I would need to hit the ground running.

I've also heard that in the current economic climate firms are more prone to cutting people loose on the basis that there are 20/30 applicants for every job in the UK. Whereas in the past they would have taken the time to develop someone instead.
I cant risk anything that would jeopardise my home or family life so this is my quandary.

To get into Practice with the confidence that I can carry out the work to a good standard. I need to:

1) Get experience in all the relevant areas of Practice.
2) I need to do this whilst I remain in my current job.
3) This needs to be done outside of my normal working hours.
4) How much time could I commit......1-2 hours an evening perhaps to begin with?
5) Would I work for free to get the experience.....yes.
6) Could I find a practice to develop me on such a basis in exchange for some free labour.....dont know?

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks,
Jay3

MarkS · Expert

Sweetman Accounting wrote:
Hi Mark.

Do you have any staff working for you (you mention 15k costs) or do you do all the work yourself?

Just interested having recently started my own business.

Kind regards.

David

No do everything myself (except for payroll which outsource in full) though at the point now where if going to take on additional clients may need to get someone in for a couple of days per week to help me out, signed up my latest client tonight.

Though had someone start today that was at a course I was teaching a few weeks ago who was looking for some bookkeeping experience as they are looking to set up a admin/bookkeeping business. She is probably going to come in and work for a day a week (probably two half days) and going to work for free as she will get the experience and I will get her to do some of my bookkeeping work (so win/win position for us both). She was out seeing someone last week who she said she couldnt do at the moment so referred him onto me so that might be another client work £2k-£3k per year.

Mark

MarkS · Expert

Amanda wrote:
That's pretty impressive Mark you sound like you are very organised to reach that level.

Do you spend a large proportion of the budget on marketing?

Probably about £2k - £3k per year but in the position now to cut right back on that if I want to.

For instance, used to mailshot about 250 new businesses every month, but havent done that for about 4 months (but going to start it back up again as paying for a mailing list of about 90 new businesses through thomsonlocal so may as well use it as paying for it).

Mark

MarkS · Expert

Jay3 wrote:
To get into Practice with the confidence that I can carry out the work to a good standard. I need to:

1) Get experience in all the relevant areas of Practice.
2) I need to do this whilst I remain in my current job.
3) This needs to be done outside of my normal working hours.
4) How much time could I commit......1-2 hours an evening perhaps to begin with?
5) Would I work for free to get the experience.....yes.
6) Could I find a practice to develop me on such a basis in exchange for some free labour.....dont know?

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks,
Jay3

Personally I dont think this is an option.

As said about I would recommend that you work at least 3 years in practice full time before looking to move out on your own. Working in evening on your own isnt an option as you really get the experience by working in an office with experienced colleagues and mentors who you will learn from.

Unless you are willing to take a significant pay cut in the short term I dont see how you can go forward, as the peoople you will be going up against will be willing to work for a low salary as most of them will be either graduates or from school with no commitments or financial ties.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but just being realistic.

Mark

MarkS · Expert

Sweetman Accounting wrote:
Hi Mark.

Do you have any staff working for you (you mention 15k costs) or do you do all the work yourself?

Just interested having recently started my own business.

Kind regards.

David

Rough breakdown of costs

Subcontracted payroll £3,600

Rent £2,880

SAGE £1,200

Taxcalc £1,100

CPD training £450

Thomsonlocal £600

PII £250

Companies House Fees £600

Mobile Phone £600

Landland/Internet £500

MIFI £250

Printing and Stationery £400

Computer Expenses £200

Postage £2,000

Introducers Fee £600

Insurance £350

Total £15,180

Then probably about £2k - £3k miscellenous bits and pieces so maybe closer to £17k - £18k

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Looks as though you have now moved away completely from VT accounts Mark. For info for anyone out there thinking of making a similar move (not myself as using VT Transaction+ rather than Sage so VT Accounts is a perfect fit for me) :

Are there any features of VT that you now miss?

Would you say that your new Taxcalc accounts setup is a better fit with Sage than VT was?

Has the link between Taxcalc tax modules and Taxcalc accounts production proven as transient as you expected.

I notice that you are advising clients to use Xero but there is no expenditure on Xero from your perspective. Does these mean that the output from Xero is readable directly into Sage / Excel or is acceptance of data via a free accountant version of Xero?

As I say, these are not really questions for me but things that I assume others would find of interest from your new setup.

kind regards,

Shaun.

matt123 · Senior Member

What's the companies house fees? Is that for clients?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Matt,

I'm sure that Mark's said before on here that he doesn't charge clients to incorporate them but subsumes the CH fee's within his charges for bookkeepering and accounts so when reading the breakdown that one jumped out at me but I assume that its that bearing of the fee's himself as part of the service that he was referring to.

I think that could actually be a really good selling point for one's services if the clients think that they are getting something for free and I may adopt that approach myself.

Shaun.

Sweetman Accounting · Veteran Member

Thank you Mark. Very useful information.

I am going to have to give serious consideration to resigning from the ACCA and joining AAT or something as not being able to do tax and final accounts work is seriously limiting my earning potential. Just seems ridiculous.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi David,

also look at IFA and AIA who seem eager to sign up ACCA qualified or higher level PQs.

I'm IFA and PQ ACCA (one paper remaining) but cannot bring myself to abandon ACCA so am stuck with losing my best potential clients in payment for supervision that I would not need if I was only under IFA.

Think long and hard before going down that road about whether you could really give up that qualification that was so hard won.

Sweetman Accounting · Veteran Member

ACCA took me three years as I went straight through. I spent 8 years in practice learning to do accounts and tax (and much more). I then spent 6 years in industry learning the job from the other side as a Finance Manager and FD. Now that I decide to become self employed, the only way I can provide the full range of services that I am capable of providing is to give up my ACCA membership. This situation is ridiculous. I am penalised for not working for an ACCA approved employer post qualification as I couldn't get a practising certificate and yet I still have to pay £200 per year to be an ACCA member. Perhaps I should try and find an ACCA with a practising certificate that would like to be my business partner. Pay them to do nothing and run the business myself!

Anyway, I'm off to do the school run. At least I'm qualified to be a dad despite only having 9 years experience!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Just back from my school run.

The finding someone then doing it yourself seems to pretty much be the arrangement with supervision. As I say mine is in exchange for clients but others pay either directly or as a percentage of turnover.

I'm sure that there must be some practitioners out there who are professional supervisors who don't actually do anything else but that.

The advantage with supervision is that eventually a couple of years down the line you won't need it... providing that you don't upset the person doing the supervising.

I've now got seven years signed off (and sixteen more in relevant roles in industry (mostly banking operations)) but non of it counts towards a practice licence as you need two years post qualification experience for that (three for audit).

On the bright side I'm pretty sure than I'm all sorted for membership but it'll be back to stage one for a practice certificate.

In the scenario that you identify under the ACCA rules you could not hold any interest in the business that you were working for so you would need to be extremely trusting of the person whose business that you were paying to build for them!

Violet2005 · Veteran Member

Dave, I hear you on this ACCA thing. I have become a partner with someone with a practicing certificate and building the business from scratch (ish) although he is full time employment and I am dying to make this self employment thing work

Violet2005 · Veteran Member

Mark if you don't mind sharing; how have you built your client base? What is your most effective marketing tool?

Jay3 · Senior Member

Dave,

just read your post re ACCA practice certificate and having just got mine I may be able to offer some advice.

The advice I got from ACCA regarding completion of the PCTR was at times very confusing. If you have 2-3 year minimum PQE you can complete the PCTR form to get the practice certificate. You do not need to be working for an approved employer and you can complete the records retrospectively "It will still be considered".

You just need to complete the document in 6 month blocks and meet the minimum requirements. I found physically completing the document and ensuring I had covered off all the requirements the most challenging part. You have to ensure you can evidence the experience in the relevant 6 month block.

You also need to include an estimation of hours worked and get your record signed off by an ACCA member.

If you'd like to know more just ask.

MarkS · Expert

Shamus wrote:
Looks as though you have now moved away completely from VT accounts Mark. For info for anyone out there thinking of making a similar move (not myself as using VT Transaction+ rather than Sage so VT Accounts is a perfect fit for me) :

Are there any features of VT that you now miss?
No found VT a bit clunky in preparing year end accounts

Would you say that your new Taxcalc accounts setup is a better fit with Sage than VT was?
No Taxcalc and SAGE run totally separate for different purposes. There is an import TBL function in Taxcalc but havent used it yet.
Has the link between Taxcalc tax modules and Taxcalc accounts production proven as transient as you expected.
Can link sole trader and ltd company directly through to tax returns at the click of a button. Saves times and thus saves money

I notice that you are advising clients to use Xero but there is no expenditure on Xero from your perspective. Does these mean that the output from Xero is readable directly into Sage / Excel or is acceptance of data via a free accountant version of Xero?
I put clients on my account with xero to up my client numbers with xero and bill them through my fee to them. Benefit of using it is in preparing the year end accounts. Can download the bank statements directly into xero then cash code so items can be allocated in probably about 1/10th of the time. Works best if client is a cash based business and everything goes through their bank account. If they pay and receive in cash or they give or receive credit then doesnt work so well as you have to record the invoices. But clients are happy to be educated how to use it and those who I have shown it to so far love it compared to doing things for instance on excel. For those that dont want to pay the small monthly amount there is always VTcashbook which a step up from excel spreadsheets and is free. But my argument is that if they then move to xero non VAT cash book which costs £6 per hour and it saves them even a hour a month in time is their time worth more than £6 per hour. If so is worth switching.
As I say, these are not really questions for me but things that I assume others would find of interest from your new setup.

kind regards,

Shaun.

MarkS · Expert

matt123 wrote:
What's the companies house fees? Is that for clients?

As part of my package for doing limited companies I do the Annual Return which think costs £13.

Have 47 ltd companies so thats £611 (dont do them all so say do 35 thats £455). £4 per month companies house direct fee is another £48. Then say £6 per month for things ordered eg accounts, newinc forms etc thats another £72. Totals £575 say £600.

MarkS · Expert

Sweetman Accounting wrote:
Thank you Mark. Very useful information.

I am going to have to give serious consideration to resigning from the ACCA and joining AAT or something as not being able to do tax and final accounts work is seriously limiting my earning potential. Just seems ridiculous.

Join something like ICPA which has lots of benefits but no restrictions.

At the moment I am not a member of any professional body but just completed the ICPA application form and will get it away today.

Also resubmitted my reapplication form to ICAS (though that another story which wont bore you with here).

Mark

MarkS · Expert

Violet2005 wrote:
Mark if you don't mind sharing; how have you built your client base? What is your most effective marketing tool?

Through a lot of hard work

Best three ways have been

1. Direct Mailshot

2. Website (getting my website totally revamped at the moment and will post a link before it goes live so everyone can give me their comments)

3. Referrals

These have accounted for probably 70% of my clients.

Mark

Violet2005 · Veteran Member

Hi Mark, Thank you for sharing. Violet

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

MarkS wrote:
Shamus wrote:
Looks as though you have now moved away completely from VT accounts Mark. For info for anyone out there thinking of making a similar move (not myself as using VT Transaction+ rather than Sage so VT Accounts is a perfect fit for me) :

Are there any features of VT that you now miss?
No found VT a bit clunky in preparing year end accounts

Would you say that your new Taxcalc accounts setup is a better fit with Sage than VT was?
No Taxcalc and SAGE run totally separate for different purposes. There is an import TBL function in Taxcalc but havent used it yet.
Has the link between Taxcalc tax modules and Taxcalc accounts production proven as transient as you expected.
Can link sole trader and ltd company directly through to tax returns at the click of a button. Saves times and thus saves money

I notice that you are advising clients to use Xero but there is no expenditure on Xero from your perspective. Does these mean that the output from Xero is readable directly into Sage / Excel or is acceptance of data via a free accountant version of Xero?
I put clients on my account with xero to up my client numbers with xero and bill them through my fee to them. Benefit of using it is in preparing the year end accounts. Can download the bank statements directly into xero then cash code so items can be allocated in probably about 1/10th of the time. Works best if client is a cash based business and everything goes through their bank account. If they pay and receive in cash or they give or receive credit then doesnt work so well as you have to record the invoices. But clients are happy to be educated how to use it and those who I have shown it to so far love it compared to doing things for instance on excel. For those that dont want to pay the small monthly amount there is always VTcashbook which a step up from excel spreadsheets and is free. But my argument is that if they then move to xero non VAT cash book which costs £6 per hour and it saves them even a hour a month in time is their time worth more than £6 per hour. If so is worth switching.
As I say, these are not really questions for me but things that I assume others would find of interest from your new setup.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Cheers Mark,

I think that VT accounts are probably better at what they do when you have a straight feed through from VT Transaction+ but that wouldn't be as smooth to getting from accounts to tax return that your settup seems to achieve.

You say that Taxcalc accounts and Sage run totally seperately.

I was assuming (probably wrongly) that the data entry work was done in Sage but then you moved the figures to Taxcalc (either manually or preferably automatically) to produce the accounts. Have I got this wrong and the taxcalc package is closer to a combination of VT+ and VT Accounts so basically a standalone solution that is integrated with the tax package? If thats the case then much as I love VT I think that I'm going to pop to the taxcalc site for a second look at that software.

Actually, one final question (well, actually two) on the taxcalc accounts production. Is the iXBRL translation quick and trouble free and can you file the accounts from within the software easily?

Sorry, too many questions. As I say, I'll be popping along to the Acorah site sometime today to have another firk around for myself,

kind regards,

Shaun.

MarkS · Expert

Shamus wrote:
MarkS wrote:
Shamus wrote:
Looks as though you have now moved away completely from VT accounts Mark. For info for anyone out there thinking of making a similar move (not myself as using VT Transaction+ rather than Sage so VT Accounts is a perfect fit for me) :

Are there any features of VT that you now miss?
No found VT a bit clunky in preparing year end accounts

Would you say that your new Taxcalc accounts setup is a better fit with Sage than VT was?
No Taxcalc and SAGE run totally separate for different purposes. There is an import TBL function in Taxcalc but havent used it yet.
Has the link between Taxcalc tax modules and Taxcalc accounts production proven as transient as you expected.
Can link sole trader and ltd company directly through to tax returns at the click of a button. Saves times and thus saves money

I notice that you are advising clients to use Xero but there is no expenditure on Xero from your perspective. Does these mean that the output from Xero is readable directly into Sage / Excel or is acceptance of data via a free accountant version of Xero?
I put clients on my account with xero to up my client numbers with xero and bill them through my fee to them. Benefit of using it is in preparing the year end accounts. Can download the bank statements directly into xero then cash code so items can be allocated in probably about 1/10th of the time. Works best if client is a cash based business and everything goes through their bank account. If they pay and receive in cash or they give or receive credit then doesnt work so well as you have to record the invoices. But clients are happy to be educated how to use it and those who I have shown it to so far love it compared to doing things for instance on excel. For those that dont want to pay the small monthly amount there is always VTcashbook which a step up from excel spreadsheets and is free. But my argument is that if they then move to xero non VAT cash book which costs £6 per hour and it saves them even a hour a month in time is their time worth more than £6 per hour. If so is worth switching.
As I say, these are not really questions for me but things that I assume others would find of interest from your new setup.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Cheers Mark,
I think that VT accounts are probably better at what they do when you have a straight feed through from VT Transaction+ but that wouldn't be as smooth to getting from accounts to tax return that your settup seems to achieve.
You say that Taxcalc accounts and Sage run totally seperately.
I was assuming (probably wrongly) that the data entry work was done in Sage but then you moved the figures to Taxcalc (either manually or preferably automatically) to produce the accounts. Have I got this wrong and the taxcalc package is closer to a combination of VT+ and VT Accounts so basically a standalone solution that is integrated with the tax package? If thats the case then much as I love VT I think that I'm going to pop to the taxcalc site for a second look at that software.
What i mean is that taxcalc and SAGE do different things. Use SAGE for bookkeeping work and taxcalc for year end accounts and tax work. As you say if I do bookkeeping for a client in SAGE I would run the TBL at the year end and then code it into Taxcalc to produce the stat accounts and do the tax return. (there is an import TBL function in Taxcalc but havent looked at it yet and expect there would be some mapping needed to set it up.
Actually, one final question (well, actually two) on the taxcalc accounts production. Is the iXBRL translation quick and trouble free and can you file the accounts from within the software easily?
IXBRL runs in taxcalc at a click of a button (not had any issues so far). Can file accounts directly to Companies House and file tax return/IXBRL accounts to HMRC directly. Again at the click of a button. For me taxcalc is a no brainer as costs £1080 per year for a fully integrated accounts and tax package. I have the following to prepare; 50 sole trader accounts, 3 partnership accounts, 49 ltd company accounts, 48 CT returns and 104 personal tax returns. Works out at £5.88 per set of accounts and £3.16 per tax return.
Sorry, too many questions. As I say, I'll be popping along to the Acorah site sometime today to have another firk around for myself,
kind regards,
Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Cheers Mark,

I've now had another look around their site (last time I was there Accounts production didn't even exist).

Anyway, the long and short of matters is that it looks very imressive and just before my next renewal I'm going to trial it and see how well I can get it to integrate with VT+.

I like the way that they are throwing in the practice management software to bring it all together plus that the pricing structure has changed this year to basically offer three levels of package so I could actually, if I like it, try it with a few clients for the first year before deciding whether to move over completely.

Think that I'm just a little naturally cautious coming from environments where its standard practice to run old and new systems in tandem for extended trial periods.

As the old saying goes, never test the water with both feet.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Sweetman Accounting · Veteran Member

Thank John.

Very interesting. I may have to quiz you further.

David

Jay3 · Senior Member

No worries.

John