OK I know asking for advice on software is likely to open up loads of debate so I have a couple of specific questions.
I used to use Quickbooks years ago when I was working for a couple of small clients, I used it because the accountant for 1 firm used it. I liked it and had 4 companies running on my desktop version. Now I can't use it because my husband decided to install Windows 8 and that version of QB won't work any more. So now I would like to have QB again for my new business but am confused as to which version. They keep pushing QB Online which I have tried and to be honest am not sure its that brilliant in comparison, (looking at Xero for Cloud but onto that in a min) so I thought I would get desktop. So the question is which version and can I have multiple clients on it?
Xero - a friend recommended it and I have seen lots of buzz about it. I have the free trial at the moment, it seems ok, will take a bit of getting used to. What I can't figure out how to do is bill expenses to a client. I used to do this in QB really easily. Obviously if I was to use Xero for my own accounts I would need to bill expenses to clients, and I am sure quite a few companies need to do this. Having had a look on the community the only answer I can find is to buy an add on, raising the cost. Anyone got any suggestions? Also is there a user guide I can look at to help me get started, or any handy hints?
Having said I have specific questions I am of course happy to have people suggest why I should use other packages - just bear in mind I do not want to be completely reliant on the cloud, it will be the right answer for some clients but not all.
Not considred any online options myself as I'm still not seeing the point in them and I've had no interest from clients about them so until that changes I'll stick with desktop sollutions where I know that a hiccup with my ISP isn't going to make me loo like an idiot to clients (plenty of other ways of achieving that particular goal!).
Quickbooks is good for multi client. For safety I'll say at least 99 clients which I think will prove more than enough.
Pro should suffice. Premier including the Premier with a go faster stripe on it that they brand as the accountant edition (yer right, where the properly formatted final accounts? where's iXBRL filing?) seems a bit of overkill for most clients.
Sure that others will be along imminently to speak highly of the cloud offerings and fill out further details on QB.
Personally I like VT but from general opinion it seems to be a bit like marmite in that those who use it either love it or hate it (I fall in the former category).
all the best,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I Also is there a user guide I can look at to help me get started, or any handy hints?
There is a xero for dummies book that you can get on Amazon. Or there is a xero user guide book.
Or you can do the Xero online webinars, there is ones from the end user's viewpoint and one from the accountant/bookkeeper viewpoint.
I recently became xero certified after doing the online certification course, think it costs about £140, and then did the online multiple choice exam. You get three attempts then you need to stand down for a month. Pass rate i think is 80%, need to get 20 out of 25 multiple choices right. Luckily i passed first time, think it was 23 I got, but recommend doing the certification course and then read through the notes from the course again.
I have a handful of clients that use Xero. I use xero as my online offering and SAGE as desktop offering for clients wishing to do their own bookkeeping using a formal accounts package.
Though also offer excel and VTcashbook as solutions for those who want a free package.
For traditional shoebox clients that have most of transactions going through bank statement I use OCrex. Picked up a new client tonight that will use Ocrex to do their accounts.
thanks for that info, I will look into the certification. Can you tell me if there is a way to log expenses and then charge them to clients in Xero - this is a big failing for me if there isn't and I will have to pay extra.
I will offer Excel - have a template I can use and I will look at VTcashbook as well.
VTCashbook is fine for giving away to clients to enter their own data and view your files but its no good at all for bookkeeping.
To be a bookkeeper with VT you need VT Transaction+ where you can take client files produced in VT Cashbook.
To be an accountant you need VT Accounts (Which comes with a free copy of VT Transaction+)
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I have to agree with Shaun. I don't see what all the fuss is about with the cloud based software, at the moment. I have used Xero and FreeAgent, and have taken a peek at Sage One, and not been particularly impressed, despite really wanting to be. My main reasons for sticking to desktop is....
1) The cloud - its like leasing a car, you never own it. You end up spending more money, and the functionality is not as good as desktop. For example, Sage Instant is £100-125 and you can use it for 5 years, at least. The Sage One Accounts package costs £10 a month, (which is more basic than Instant) and you end up paying £600 over the 5 years. (FreeAgent charge a client £30 per month yet cant even deal with reverse charge VAT).
2) You can only view one page at a time on the the web. Desktop software allows you to scoot around the program having different windows open - very useful when your in the middle of posting something and you want to double which code something was posted to last time, or what tax code was previously used. Cloud is one page at a time and you lose everything if you need to go back and check something.
3) You are knackered if you lose your internet connection, or their servers go down (Thoughts go back to the Blackberry nightmare a few years back)
Its such a great idea, but I feel, at the moment, its more about buzz than substance, and making the software providers a fortune.
I'm kind of in the dinosaur camp with Shaun and Michelle (I'm always the gooseberry!) in that I don't really get all the fuss about cloud but having said that I think newer and younger clients are going to expect this offering so I need to make my mind up which way to go. I have lots about how great Xero is and I'm staggered clients are willing to pay the extra £25 or whatever a month for it and it also seems that Xero bookkeepers can easily charge £25 per hour without any problem. I was thinking that Sage One probably has enough functionality and is only £10 per month so may be easier to package that one up better. The main advantage always seems to be the bank feeds but I have also heard you cannot batch entry your invoices so everything takes longer, is that right?
Quickbooks on line looks good, I am a bit of a dinosaur as well and am sitting on the fence with this one. I am trying to find out more about QB's on line, it does the banks feeds that xero does. I can't imagine any of my clients wanting it, they are happy to give me all there stuff in envelopes or carrier bags! Some of them struggle with an email let alone having a go at their Books!!!
Awww Rob, but your such a lovely little gooseberry!
Sage One... kinda hoped for better from Sage, you know how I am camp Sage usually!
Sage Cashbook.. a client gave me his log in details, and all I could pull out was a profit and loss sort of report.. I rang Sage, hoping the accountants version would give me more accessibility, but not so. Sage said that cashbook offered no export of transactional data. As it happens, this client had posted everything through the one Sage bank account so it didn't balance. I needed to pull it all apart and rebuild cash, paypal and bank - but without a transaction report to print and tick up, it would have been nightmare. I would have had to do everything in-program, using bank receipts and payments to fix everything... all whilst having nothing on my desk to refer to as I went along. Couldn't believe it. Even if the client had used the program correctly, how do you build you file if you have no data? What do you do if you get an investigation? £5 a month sounds so attractive but its a false economy if you ask me.
I do like the idea of importing the bank, and I wish the desktop software could it. Not sure about Sage One and batching sales/purchase invoices, to be honest Rob... but yes, I have found, with other software, having to build a full sales invoice every time is lengthy. The process of creating transactions in the cloud actually takes me longer than to batch process in Sage - or the same time at the very least. And I don't think I have seen a recurring transaction facility online. But perhaps I have missed it.
Quickbooks on line looks good, I am a bit of a dinosaur as well and am sitting on the fence with this one. I am trying to find out more about QB's on line, it does the banks feeds that xero does. I can't imagine any of my clients wanting it, they are happy to give me all there stuff in envelopes or carrier bags! Some of them struggle with an email let alone having a go at their Books!!!
Hi Amanda, how are you?
Do let us know how you find QB online. Like Rob says, we have to take it on, if its what clients want, despite that it might not be the most cost and time efficient option. So any feedback on any of the providers is really useful.
I think the other thing is that, much of this cloud software is geared up for people doing their own books, and what we need as bookkeepers, who post thousands of transactions in a week, differs from the people this software is aimed at. I also feel sometimes, that the providers assume the trader will keep the books perfect, and dont make finding mistakes very easy!
thanks for that info, I will look into the certification. Can you tell me if there is a way to log expenses and then charge them to clients in Xero - this is a big failing for me if there isn't and I will have to pay extra.
I will offer Excel - have a template I can use and I will look at VTcashbook as well.
Alison
Hi Alison
Dont know what you mean by "log expenses and then charge them to clients in Xero". Do you mean using Xero as your own accounts package to do your own accounts?
If so not sure if you can but the xero help screens or the online questions section will be able to help you though you may as you say need to bolt on an add on.
I have to agree with Shaun. I don't see what all the fuss is about with the cloud based software, at the moment. I have used Xero and FreeAgent, and have taken a peek at Sage One, and not been particularly impressed, despite really wanting to be. My main reasons for sticking to desktop is....
1) The cloud - its like leasing a car, you never own it. You end up spending more money, and the functionality is not as good as desktop. For example, Sage Instant is £100-125 and you can use it for 5 years, at least. The Sage One Accounts package costs £10 a month, (which is more basic than Instant) and you end up paying £600 over the 5 years. (FreeAgent charge a client £30 per month yet cant even deal with reverse charge VAT). You would need to renew SAGE every 3 years so would cost you £100-£125 over three years. As a Xero partner I can get packages which "joe public" cant buy, can get nonVATcash book for £5+VAT per month so that works out at £180+VAT over 3 years. With the benefit of having bank feeds so you can quickly reconcile your bank if you have hundrerds of bank transactions in the year.
2) You can only view one page at a time on the the web. Desktop software allows you to scoot around the program having different windows open - very useful when your in the middle of posting something and you want to double which code something was posted to last time, or what tax code was previously used. Cloud is one page at a time and you lose everything if you need to go back and check something. You can have different tabs opened in Xero (same as having different tabs opened in SAGE)
3) You are knackered if you lose your internet connection, or their servers go down (Thoughts go back to the Blackberry nightmare a few years back) Yeah agreed, but if someone steals your computer and your SAGE disk then you have lost SAGE.
Its such a great idea, but I feel, at the moment, its more about buzz than substance, and making the software providers a fortune. Cloud accounting is what I see the way ahead will be in 10-15 years time and expect majority of clients at that time will want to deal on the cloud.
Important thing is you give clients options whether it desk top, cloud, excel or whatever as ever client can be pigeon-holed into using a particular medium.
I have clients that use other desktop packages other than SAGE and other cloud packages other than xero. Happy to use them as just really need the financial information to do the accounts.
Personally I avoid Sage like the black death... looks overly complicated and is sometimes too much for the sole trader. Plus its HIDOUSLY expensive for the first time bookkeeper!
I started using Quickbooks accountant, but like Shaun says there's nothing 'accountanty' about it!!! (dont get me started!!! lol)
I have recently become a Quickbooks Online ProAdvisor and the soft(cloud)ware looks good. Client can design own invoices and email/print them out, they can run reports to see how they are doing plus the bank account linking feature is a good one in that it can auto reconcile if you have the information already inputted!
I myself have moved to Kashflow, sorry its yet another cloud based one, and I love it, I know for a fact you can assign expenses to clients and its designed for the 'client' not you as the accountant/bookkeeper (in the sense that its clear and simple to use) It, like most other itterations of Cloud versions of software, has loads of add ins, some you pay for some you dont; and the list is growing! Now that its been bought by IRIS im hopfully looking for intergration with HMRC so with my accountant account so I can submit returns directly from the website, exciting times!
I may upset some people here, but I like using this new tech! The world (both real and virtual) are constantly changing, and if you have more that one option then you are going to make yourself more employable. Are you realistically going to turn down that client who uses new cloud based tech, just because you still haven't made your mind up what side of the fence you fall? (like I say no offence to ANYONE).
Like I say I now use Quickbooks (desktop AND online), Excel, and Kashflow and I feel that gives me a wider range of services to offer, from those who cant be arsed with any book work (quickbooks desktop), to those who want to have real time information and be able to issue invoices in fancy new ways (Kashflow)
It really is a buyers market and once you start a few trials you will get a feel for what suits you best... Be warned though at the end of every trial there is a salesman WAITING to pounce on you after that last day has expired! lol :D
The main advantage always seems to be the bank feeds but I have also heard you cannot batch entry your invoices so everything takes longer, is that right?
No that isnt right.In Xero you can put all your sales and purchases invoices in a csv file and will upload them directly.
Or if you use receipt bank they can do the processing for you and then you can upload the receipt bank file. Receipt bank charges £9+VAT per month but a no brainer if you have about 100 purchase/receipt invoices a month. As more cost effective for receipt bank to summarise that me to summarise which would probably take 1.5-2hrs.
I'm with Mark on this one. I was very anti 'the cloud' previously for many of the reasons above. Recently I tried Xero and am now in the process of moving many clients to it. As Mark says the bank rec is so easy and quick (though not as good as quickfile), but where it comes into it's own is working with Receipt Bank. I did a quarterly VAT return in under half an hour with a client who has about 60 purchase invoices/receipts a month and about 30 sales.
It may cost a bit more in the long term, but the time savings more than make up for that. I am having a software developer design a system for me to be able to do batch entries offline without using the CSV, hopefully this will make it even better.
I'm working towards my partnership with receipt bank, and I love using it. A great example of different softwares working together, RB works with other software as well Including QB online and Kashflow. I use it myself and its so easy to just take a photo and then forget about it, as it publishes striaght to your sofware!
Dont know what you mean by "log expenses and then charge them to clients in Xero". Do you mean using Xero as your own accounts package to do your own accounts?
If so not sure if you can but the xero help screens or the online questions section will be able to help you though you may as you say need to bolt on an add on.
Mark
Mark,
For example - I have to post invoices for a client I need to log and then recharge the postage to them. I could do it manually in a separate record I guess but in QB I could enter the expense and choose to allocate it to a client and then when I raised the invoice I was reminded I had outstanding expenses for that client and asked if I wanted to add them to the invoice.
Stops me forgetting - I know many charges are built into the fee structure but some are additional. This will also be the case for some clients.
Can some one clarify for me if I buy QB pro then I can have 99 companies on it? It says 1 user but that's fine it will be only me!
Brain is tired and fried after a business seminar where I struggled not to correct the teacher giving out dodgy financial advice. I did try but he wasn't happy!!
See my first reply. I think that you must have missed it as you never acknowledged it
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Sorry I did read that reply and meant to acknowledge it. As always you are a star helping out us newbies.
I think QB it is as I am happy with it which makes it one less thing to worry about.
thanks again to everyone and their replies it has been really helpful and I will investigate other options further down the line but only as and when needed I think.
We use pretty much all of the software mentioned on this thread as we find that different software works best for different clients. For instance if you want stock tracking I don't think you can beat Quickbooks, whereas if you pay everything straight away through the bank account then Xero might be best. When the client does the invoicing, for instance, and we do everything else then cloud softwares can be great but if the client doesn't want access then a desktop software might be more cost efficient. I don't think there is any one best software.
I think someone mentioned a drawback of cloud software being that you can only view one page at at time, but that isn't the case. You can open a second tab or window, or a there, or a fourth. On a mac you press control and then click on whatever it is you want to open in your new tab/window and Safari auto refreshes most of the time as necessary. I can't remember what you do on a PC, I think it's control or alt, although you have to manually refresh the pages you opened first (or at least you do on the browsers I've used).
I'm working towards my partnership with receipt bank, and I love using it. A great example of different softwares working together, RB works with other software as well Including QB online and Kashflow. I use it myself and its so easy to just take a photo and then forget about it, as it publishes striaght to your sofware!
Thats interesting, Gary. I spoke to Intuit this morning and they didn't seem to even know what RB was. They told me they don't work with them but if RB wanted to design for QB they have no objection. I thought it was quite a superior viewpoint as always from Intuit. Last to the game and expect existing providers to bend over backwards for them.
Really I must have it wrong somewhere then.... :/ TBH though you can export things from RB in a spread sheet and then import that in QB online, so its kinda they same if there's no API editing allowed on it.
So now I would like to have QB again for my new business but am confused as to which version. They keep pushing QB Online which I have tried and to be honest am not sure its that brilliant in comparison, (looking at Xero for Cloud but onto that in a min) so I thought I would get desktop. So the question is which version and can I have multiple clients on it?
