This is my first post on the Forum so please do not be too harsh on me.
I 've been a bookkeeper for a few months only, working mainly on self assessments for individuals. Recently, however I have been approached by a small ltd company for bookkeeping and end of year accounts. ICB qualified, I am entitled to draft Final Accounts for Ltd and Partnerships and I understand that my drafts have to be checked and submitted to the Companies House and HMRC by an accountant. I have asked a few accountants about their fees for doing this but they quote far too much - £800 + Does anyone know any other way to go about it? I've recently heard that for the company of up to 6 million turnover I could submit myself if only I register with Companies House. Can anyone confirm this?
Kind regards
-- Edited by NewBookkeeper on Tuesday 8th of April 2014 01:10:19 PM
You dont need an accountant to submit accounts though if you've never done final accounts/CT600 before then I wouldnt advise you. Not sure how the ICB licence works but it probably says something about not carrying out work above your competance.
As a bookkeeper with a couple of months experience, it's not something you can ethically do. In terms of ICB qualifications, you need level 4 to be able to do this. Although you can prepare draft accounts, there will probably be various adjustments needed, as well as the corporation tax calculation and the notes that are part of the accounts. So whilst legally there is no requirement for certain qualifications to be held to be able to submit accounts for small companies, ethically you need to be appropriately experienced/qualified to offer this as a service.
Thanks for all your replies,
Limited companies will be definitely a next step for me. I do not have the experience, true but you have to start somewhere. After all I have the right do it. And as I don't want to miss this opportunity I will be soon contacting Sharon for a quote.
I worry about the idea that people feel that they are "entitled" or "have a right" as has been said here to work as accountants when they opted to take a bookkeeping qualification.
This is not aimed at the poster who is merely representative of what people are being told by their professional bodies (this is not purely ICB that I am talking about but ICB is the posters body).
If ICB is a bookkeeping rather than an accountancy qualification as it claims to be then I do not believe that they have the right to tell members that they are able to prepare accounts for limited liability companies.
If people want to be accountants with the option to stop at bookkeeping then take accountancy qualifications which start with AAT or FIA.
If people want to offer bookkeeping services (so stopping at trial balance but including VAT, Payroll, management reports used only internally and self assessment) and nothing more than that then take ICB or IAB which are excellent qualifications for that client base.
That is nothing against bookkeepers at all. Some of the cleverest financial professionals that I know are bookkeepers.... but... if professional bodies want to maintain a niche market by keeping their qualifications seperate from accountancy they need to be prepared not to be working as accountants.
The real issue I feel is that the market for pure bookkeeping services is not sufficient for the number of self employed bookkeepers meaning that they need to offer additional services surely implying that ICB and IAB need to drop the niche title and admit that they are entry level accountancy qualifications and start putting more emphasis on taxation, ethics and the regulations behind final accounts (anyone can let their software knock up a balance sheet. understanding the why behind each field is somewhat more complex).
If people want to go ahead and prepare accounts then there is nothing that I can do to stop them... But please don't tell me that you have a right to prepare them. I think that a closer description would be a loophole rather than a right.
And I think that we all know what eventually happens to loopholes.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
As someone who got as far as ICMA Professional 1 37 years ago, and hasn't passed an exam in anything since, my previous 15 years in this business were spent doing work that was within my abilities. If I could do it to a high standard, my clients wanted it, and it was legal, I did it. If any of those didn't apply, I didn't even attempt it. I did a lot of the year end accounts preparation work, but only because I could, and had better facilities for doing it efficiently that my friendly chartered accountant, who finished them off. Things have changed during my 10 year break, so I'll be approaching whatever work I take on with caution, to make sure I'm still more than competent to do it. I certainly won't be taking on anything because I think it's my right to do it. The only entitlement is that clients have a right to a high quality and competent service.
I don't think it's about bits of paper, it's about credibility and delivering what you offer.
As much as anything else I think everyone has to be aware of what their practice licence allows of them- as an AICB level 3 bookkeeper with ICB you cannot prepare final accounts, with level 4 you can, AAT - you can only do them at MAAT level, not sure about other organisations.
I have always been able to do them whilst being in business but only recently started offering the service due to taking my licence with AAT as well as ICB
If ICB is a bookkeeping rather than an accountancy qualification as it claims to be then I do not believe that they have the right to tell members that they are able to prepare accounts for limited liability companies.
From the way I read ICB responses on their forum, they don't encourage members to do final accounts. Only at Level IV do they allow it. For years it has been vague the use of the words "draft final accounts" but I get the impression hey discourage it. Maybe just me.
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Never buy black socks from a normal shop. They shaft you every time.
Sounds like you need the basic bronze package. If you just need the accounts and CT return would be able to reduce the price if you dont need payroll, directors personal tax returns, annual return and tax investigation insurance.
Price will depend on turnover and quality of records. Though given you are a bookkeeper assume the records will be of a good standard.
Give me a call on 01259 721156 or email me at mark@stewartaccounting.co.uk to discuss.
Based in Central Scotland but happy to work remotely.
Currently have about 120 clients split roughly 50/50 been sole traders/partnerships and Ltd companies.
I would like to clarify that I am talking about drafting final accounts for ltd companies, paying accountant for checking my work and him taking responsibility for it After all that is what is happening when a bookkeeper is working in accounting practice isn't it ?
As an ICB fully qualified member in practice I was also exploring the possibility of submitting Ltd end of year myself for small companies and I would definitely not provide my clients with substandard quality work or information. Our work is step by step supported by ICB!
Might also be worth checking your PII as well - might not include that aspect of the service so you could find yourself uninsured if something went wrong.
If you are interested in following a professional accounting qualification, try the Institute of Financial Accountants www.ifa.org.uk/ who are dedicated to serving the SME.
