Social Media??? - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

RobH · Expert

Social Media???

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Think this one is the thread that Kris will have been waiting for.

There's a book by Nick Pendrell for our market aimed at this exact question. See here :

www.amazon.co.uk/Internet-Marketing-Bible-Accountants-Advertising/dp/0956144829/ref=la_B005LW366M_1_1

I'm only on Linkedin but I note that some of my clients have real embraced the whole social media thing.

One thing that I've seen come up a few times in peoples books is clients buying facebook likes. There are companies out there (it seems mostly in India) who you can pay to like you.

Actually, pretty sure that might have been the arrangement that I had with my ex wife.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Hi Rob,

I use Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn. The biggest Issue I see with social media is that people get bored. It's not something that has a quick turnaround with new clients, it can take a long time. You are really trying to build relationships and, very much like networking, people forget that they are not selling to the room. With social media you are selling to your followers followers or friends most of the time. So you find that people post constantly for a week, then never hear from them again. This can actually do more damage than good.

I use a software called PageModo. It's so easy to set posts for the week ahead. I try to post 5 to 8 posts a week but not more than 2 per day. I use a combination of local business news, HMRC news, tips and 1 sales message per week. I also run competitions and offer freebies.

As with everything else, social media is only one spoke in the marketing wheel. Too many people try to rely on it as their total approach. I looked at paying someone to do it, but it was going to cost too much for what was on offer, then I decided if you can't beat 'em join 'em. I've been working a bit in the background now at developing a social media offering for local businesses.

Good luck.

Kris

RobH · Expert

Cheers Shaun, Kris.

Kris how long do you spend on your social media? I agree that it is a long term project and needs consistent postings. I think it's about offering free/interesting titbits (can you still say that?) so you become everyones second choice accountant after the ones they already have and eventually some may decide a change is needed or they may use us for a different offering. What kind of figures were you quoted from the person who would have done it for you? What kind of service are you thinking of offering?

Cheers

RobH · Expert

Shaun, just ordered that book, thanks

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

They were quoting £200 for 30 posts per month. The problem for me was probably not just the money, but the fact that I am a control freak. I only want one person building relationships with my clients and potential clients, me. We've seen a lot of big organisations social media go bad (thinking myNYPD here) recently through innocent mistakes. I don't really want someone else doing that to me. There's also a consideration of do they have industry knowledge, will they know what my followers want to read?

Right now I spend about 30 minutes a week setting up my posts for the week ahead. I also use a wee script they have which allows me to save any webpage to post later. If I happen to be browsing and find something I think is of interest to my readers I just click a button and it's added my next free slot.

The service I'm looking at offering is very much in it's infancy. I'm researching what is out there at the moment. I only really considered it seriously last week. Now that my new bookkeeper service is growing arms and legs I thought it could be a good add on.

Kris

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

I actually used that book too and found it really good. Marketing has become a bit of a hobby that is overtaking my life right now. I think I've spent my annual book allowance on marketing books in the last few weeks on my kindle.

Kris

RobH · Expert

Thanks Kris, I know what you mean about marketing, I rather enjoy that aspect more than accounts, so hoping to build the business sufficiently that I can afford some really good people to do the work. I'm about half way there but another good slice of fees over next year or so could get me over the line...

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

And going back to Kris' quotes your last post reminded me of another one Rob.

"Nobody ever got rich by doing the work themselves".

Its great that we all know how to do it so we know that we can mould and guide (and where necessary discipline) but as you've just hit the nail on the head with, it's not really where the money is. Thats in actually bringing the money into the firm. not in doing the work itself (although that still has to be done well).

Next time that I'm talking with Steve and / or Ross I'll suggest a most entrepeneurial prize for this years awards. Reccon that you two would be the front runners for that one at the mo (although I reccon Mark (Marks) would be in the running on that one as well).

Shaun.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

You're right Rob. I'm enjoying the web design and webinars more than the bookkeeping right now, a wee change is good. I'd love to be able to get someone reliable to do the bookkeeping and let me concentrate on what I enjoy and what grows the business. Maybe soon...

Mark did seem to build a huge client base from pretty much nothing really, really quickly. I was impressed and would have loved to have known his secret, but he plays his cards close to his chest.

Kris

FoxAccountancyServices · Expert

I just ordered the book for kindle on the mac... £7.20 - bargain! hope its good, now!

As always, Kris is the !bomb! when its comes to marketing!

Sharon Eyre · Senior Member

I use LinkedIn and Facebook for advertising -I have actually had results from Facebook , I usually update once or twice a week and post links to things I think are of interest

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

Sharon, drop a link to your facebook. I can't find you

Sharon Eyre · Senior Member

put the link on and it took it to my sign on page -don't know if it's because I'm on my iPad -I will try tomorrow , it should just be under accounting 4 though

-- Edited by Sharon Eyre on Thursday 15th of May 2014 09:35:55 PM

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

I'll try again. You're missing a trick by not having it on your website though. I've found it good for people who are interested in my services but not quite ready to buy.

Amanda · Expert

HI Rob and Everyone else.

I was never a fan of social media, but I must say I have come to love it, like Kris says, can't be em join em! My Facebook page is relatively new and not really sure what I am doing with it, I do have a personal page and am just learning how to use it. I am on LinkedIn but don't use it to the full potential, and of course Twitter. I do use Twitter but not as frequently as I would like as I am just too busy right now.

I do in tend to do more social media when I can find the time.

Rob - Get back out there and network!!! That was the best piece of advise you gave me on here a couple of years back, and it is certainly paying now. Also I find people that meet me then go on LinkedIn and check me out so its like having you CV on line.

I know someone that isn't on any form of social media and doesn't have a website either, and now the business is starting to fall behind, so it just goes to show what a powerful tool it can be.

I am enjoying the marketing side of the business and have enjoyed meeting a lot of new people, some of which have turned into clients. I still have a few pending and god help me if one becomes a client because I will have to do some serious thinking of how I can sub work out if it comes off. That person I met at a networking event, then he checked me out on LinkedIn!

Like the look of the book, looks like I will be ordering it tomorrow! Thanks Shaun.

-- Edited by Amanda on Thursday 15th of May 2014 11:23:25 PM

EPF_Solutions · Senior Member

I've just ordered the book to add to my growing marketing collection! I'm doing a 14 week online marketing course related to the other business I'm working on at the moment! I've always known that marketing was important, but never got round to learning much about it. My other project is a social enterprise, and I've just discovered ethical marketing, so I like it far more than I used to when all I knew of was the nasty foot in the door sort!

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Sure its true but Ethical marketing sounds like an oxymoron alongside the likes of freindly fire and microsoft works.

MarkS · Expert

kjmcculloch83 wrote:

Mark did seem to build a huge client base from pretty much nothing really, really quickly. I was impressed and would have loved to have known his secret, but he plays his cards close to his chest.

Kris

Hi Kris now up at 130 clients. April was my busiest month to date with 11 new clients. Already got 4 new clients this month with another two to see next week and another 7 or so currently in progress at various stages. My target for this year was 3-5 new clients a month so by the end of the year to be up at somewhere about 150 clients. But looks like will be closer to 200.

Taking a couple of students on work experience over the summer and they both coming in for 2 days per week for free, which is my kind of salary. (though wouldnt do that to someone and said would pay their expenses).

I have found what works for me but if I told everyone else then everyone would copy it. What I would say is you have got to try different things and see what works works for you. My best three sources are; referrals, website and my secret trick which has netted me more than 10 fold my expenditure to date which isnt bad compared to buying a block of fees which you usually get in a 1:1 ratio. Also I dont use social media as I havent a clue how it works, but starting to dabble in it and started to use hootsuite to send out posts across twitter, linkedin and facebook. Signed up to free courses at business gateway provider local to me that are running courses in linkedin, twitter, facebook, google+, pinterest, mailchimp, youtube etc which will be going to over the next 3-4 months so I can understand the basics. Though I intend to use social media to post out information and knowledge rather than get clients. Eventually want to do 15 mins videos on all the main cloud packages, VT, SAGE to put on website and youtube as mini training videos. Probably use something like go to meeting as seems a lot better than their competitor join.me.

Currently down in London. Was at the Accountex exhibition today and going again tomorrow. If you are near to the area would recommend a trip to see what is out there as the technology will blow your socks off. Even SAGE is joining in and the 2015 version of Line 50 (due out in August) will finally be on the cloud so you can access it anywhere. It also looks a lot more intuitive compared to the current version so looks like SAGE has got their mojo back. So Xero etc better be on their toes as can see SAGE mopping up the cloud market now Line 50 will be on it.

Also met up today with a guy that is on here, Adrian, he wanted to meet up to personally thank me for the help I have given over the last year or so on here. So had a beer with him after the exhibition today.

Anyway better get to bed as up and out again for 10am.

Mark

-- Edited by MarkS on Friday 16th of May 2014 01:00:35 AM

RobH · Expert

Just going to train station to go to Accountex...I'll know where to find you then Mark...in the bar! Kris I'll ply him with many beers and get the secret!
You're right Amanda, I need to get back onto the networking. Catch up later...

rachel_mclean · Guru

I use a facebook business page and I get a lot of work from it. I ask clients that use facebook to write a comment on my page and share the page and I seem to get a lot of work this way. Also a lot of my new clients have googled and found my website then also checked my facebook page, seen the comments and then phoned me up.

Sharon Eyre · Senior Member

I have never really taken to twitter myself- prefer Linkedin and Facebook

-- Edited by Sharon Eyre on Friday 16th of May 2014 10:01:34 AM

EPF_Solutions · Senior Member

Shamus wrote:
Sure its true but Ethical marketing sounds like an oxymoron alongside the likes of freindly fire and microsoft works.

Here are a couple to get you started!

http://the7gracesofmarketing.com/ - The 7 Graces of Marketing - ethical marketing for social entrepreneurs

http://marketingforhippies.com/ - Marketing for Hippies

Definitions of Marketing and Sales from The 7 Graces of Marketing:
Marketing is the act of communicating that we have something of value to share.
Sales is the act of exchanging things of value.

-- Edited by EPF_Solutions on Friday 16th of May 2014 10:35:15 AM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Of those two marketing for hippies is a much more professional looking site.

The other one I feel should be used as a template for how not to design a website.

But, Way too much input of fluffy bunny stuff for one day.

I'm actually an advocate of the Milton Friedman school of economic philosophy so idea's such as social corporate responsibility are quite alien concepts.

What good deeds a business owner does with the profits that they take from a business is down to them but the business itself is created with one simple goal and that is to legally create profit.

As Milton Friedman said. To work to any other agenda is effectively taxing the shareholders and deciding how such taxes should be spent.

EPF_Solutions · Senior Member

It depends on whether the business is being set up to make money, or to achieve a social aim where a business is the best way to achieve it. What if the shareholders want to be taxed, or rather don't want a dividend? I'm aiming to set up a Community Interest Company, where the dividends are limited to a fair amount. That's assuming it is limited by shares.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Whilst I genuinely appreciate the good work done in this manner, any business not set up to make money surely fails to meet the definition of being a business.

IFRS3 definition of a business :

"An integrated set of activities and assets that is capable of being conducted and managed for the purpose of providing a return in the form of dividends, lower costs or other economic benefits directly to investors or other owners, members or participants".

The definition revolves around economic, not social benefits.

Conversely a charity is defined as (can't remember where the actual definition is so this is from memory. It will be in the spirit of rather than word perfect) : A organisation whose primary objective is not profit but profit may be a side effect.

So would that not put community interest companies under the category of charities rather than businesses?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I'm amending my earlier post in relation to the site marketing for hippies.

I'd not taken the tab down when I went off to do other stuff and when I came back to close it I gave it a second, more detailsed examination.

That site is to my mind the model website of how to market your business.

To some extent the subject matter of that website doesn't matter but look at the fluid way that the whole front page fits together and the integration with the embedded video (such as pointing from the video to relevant bits of the web page).

Now compare that the the other site, graces of marketing which is a how to not build a website.

It may not have been the intent of John's post but comparing those two next to each other provides near perfect examples for this thread of what to do and what not to do to get clients interest in your site

EPF_Solutions · Senior Member

Definition of a social enterprise from A Guide to Legal Forms for Social Enterprise, Dept. for Business, Innovation and Skills, Nov 2011:

A business with primarily social objectives whose surpluses are principally reinvested for that purpose in the business or in the community, rather than being driven by the need to maximise profit for shareholders or owners.

I discovered ethical marketing through Marketing for Hippies. There's several hours of really useful videos, and lots of blog posts, that I've learned a lot from. The other stuff I've found came from various links he posted.

kjmcculloch83 · Expert

So what about the co-op, Shaun? A business or not? It's there to make a profit, but reinvests that profit in the business or other good causes. Or Semi-chem?

I worked for a credit union in a previous life, and we were definitely concerned with making a profit, but we also had an eye on the other two bottom lines too (social and environmental)

Sorry, I just don't agree that businesses are only there to maximise wealth for a few.

Kris

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Its a school of thinking Kris at the oposit end of the spectrum to the balanced scorecard.

I can see Friedmans point. The business concentrates on maximising profits for the shareholder who, if they believe in a good cause are free to donate their profits to that cause. It is not up to the management of the organisation to tax them on their profits and decide what that good cause (if any) should be.

Comes down to the separation between the owners of the business (the shareholders) and the management of the business (Generally the directors) where one can argue why should it be up to the directors to decide to reduce profits in order to give to help the cause of their rather than the owners choosing.

Of course, the shareholders if organised (they seldom are) could vote the directors out of office but the directors actions whilst in office are seldom overturned.

If a business (such as the co-op) is attracting good capital appreciation of share price by attracting shareholders interested in ethical investing then in turn the pension companies will invest.

If the public lose interest then the pension companies will divest and management of businesses then need to rethink their policies quickly.

An enterprise could attract shareholder either with the temptation of profit or in the belief in what it is doing.

Investment houses and Pension companies will be interested in long term profit. If investors turn away from them because they disagree with their investments then they lose money. If investors do turn away from companies that they have invested in, they lose money.

As such, the co-op is a business even though it's primary goal may not be pure profit it is seen as an engine to pure profit from those that invest in it.

At he end of the day a business is there to make a profit for its owners. It is not some organisation created for the benefit of society beyond taxation from profit going (supposedly) to the benefit of society as a whole.

Hey, I know a good game. Lets play spot the capitalist.... I was never any good at hide and seek either.

lol,

talk later,

Shaun.

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hi,

You might find this website useful as a guide to social media: http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/

David.

RobH · Expert

When I was at Accountex, I encountered someone selling 'social Media', they are running some seminars around the country so I may go to the Birmingham one. I asked about a fully managed service and the lady has a client that she does all the LinkedIn content for and charges £800 per month, which of course might be fantastic value but a bit rich for me!

Most interesting service for those who want it all done and very professionally that I have come across is about to be launched, it will do all social media for you, brand it up, 5 tweets a week, follow other tweets, write the content etc. I'll have more details tomorrow when it's being launched for those who are interested. It is £197 per month plus vat but there is a referral program attached so if you show it to a client and they sign up then you get £50 per month and if they sign someone up you get £25 per month. Basically you need 4 people to sign up to get all your social media done free, sign more up and you are in the money. I've mentioned it to a few clients who are quite keen.

Amanda · Expert

Social Media Courses are very popular where I live, there is a company that does them, and I know someone whose been on it, and they came away buzzing, it seems to be the in thing at the mo!

MarkS · Expert

RobH wrote:
When I was at Accountex, I encountered someone selling 'social Media', they are running some seminars around the country so I may go to the Birmingham one. I asked about a fully managed service and the lady has a client that she does all the LinkedIn content for and charges £800 per month, which of course might be fantastic value but a bit rich for me!

Rob who was that? Click to Ignite? As they were the only ones I could see that were doing social media at Accountex.

I wouldnt pay £800 a year for someone to do all my social media. As I look to get a 10 fold return on expenditure and dont think would get £8k worth of fees through social media.

Basically I am using social media as an information channel rather than an advertising channel. Use hootsuite to post out across twitter, linkedin, facebook and google+ with my blogs. Been to a recent course on google+ and linkedin basics and going to the linkedin advance course this Monday.

I see social media as just another marketing channel and wouldnt concentrate all my efforts on it in to hope of getting clients.

Have done not bad so far getting about 130 clients with none of them via social media (got another 2 potentials to see tomorrow). Also got an email yesterday from someone that I seen last year that now wants me to take over the 5 companies. So all good here. Need to soon decide the next course of action as struggling now to get work done.

Mark

RobH · Expert

Hi Mark,

yes it was 'Click to Ignite; (I didn't even get a chance to spin their wheel of fortune!). I might go to their seminar, that was quite cheap (£69 I think) and I'm not sure they were really pushing the fully managed service but I don't want to be doing it myself so tried to get a cost from her. Anyway I've signed up with these other people now as mentioned in my earlier post and already have recommended it to 4 clients who have signed up so all my social media is free now!

EPF_Solutions · Senior Member

My copy of Internet Marketing Bible for Accountants has just arrived, so I suppose I'd better read it urgently, before finishing my web site that I really must get done in the next few days.