Hi Simone,

 

There would be no need to switch from ICB as they offer a Level IV Diploma in Financial Management, which would then cover you for the completion of accounts for Ltd Co's. Even without this qualification, at Associate or Full Membership Level, you can still be completing accounts for sole traders, partnerships and not for profit organisations.

 

Hope this helps.

Hi Simone,

my understanding is that the highest level of IAB will get you to DipFA.

There's a difficult to find page here :

www.ifa.org.uk/learning/part-qualified/

Interestingly it shows that entry via ACCA, CIMA and fully qualified AAT can get you directly to membership.

PQ AAT and IAB gain exemptions to start studying at a higher level.

ICB being non Ofqual (that does not make it a bad qualification) does not appear in the list but as mentioned previously could be used along with five years experience to gain IFA membership.

Actually, under IAB there's a click here which opens a form which is the best explanation of the levels of available exemption.

hope that helps,

kind regards,

Shaun.

No problem Simone,

I know what you mean about clear as mud! Call me a cynic but I suspect that if looking at your qualifications to determin exemptions did not come with a £72 price tag there may be more information available on the site.

I think that the current lack of recognition of the ICB qualification which doesn't jump through Ofquals burning hoops (James from the ICB wrote at length about why the ICB have not pursued that route earlier this year) means that its only real use if looking to move to IFA would be using ICB to gain the experience requiremet and then using 5 years experience rather than the ICB qualification as such to move to IFA.

Looking at the exemptions they do seem a little messed up where a Masters in accountancy only earns the same exemptions as an HND/HNC or BSc or Level 4 qualification.

Looking at the IAB level 4 it's QCF level 5 (see here : register.ofqual.gov.uk/Qualification/Details/500_3370_0) but it's not a professional accountancy qualification (ACCA, CIMA, ACA) so although it's recognised the IFA qualification won't consider any non accounting qualification over level 4 as anything other than a level 4 (note that the Ofqual description of the level 4 IAB is accounting and finance, not bookkeeping).

I think that I would be more disgruntled through if I held a masters and even that was not regarded above level 4!

All in all though we are talking here about the symantecs of the qualification recognition in relation to IAB which may mean that IAB is not the right starting point.

Have you considered AAT? That could be either an end in itself or a stepping stone to level 5 IFA or even direct membership if you have achieved MAAT status.

Just another consideration there, although, it may be a more expensive one than the IAB route initially identified.

Sorry, I know that it's all really confusing but at least you've come to the right place to get varied and unbiased advice.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Only just spotted your reply as well Brian. It's to have it confirmed about the level 4 ICB - however i wonder if the IFA qualification is better in terms of image - if that makes sense? e.g. clients might expect a qualification from more of an accounting body for submitting year end accounts.

Hi Charlie,

B190 - looked promising but one of the student reviews mentioned that as well as passing the course the IAB also want two references to say that you've been working as a bookkeeper.
B291/292 I think would probably take me to long to complete - it would be December 16 by the time i got the results if i did 30 points a year.

Thanks though, Im going to look more into the IAB courses.

Simone

Afternoon Dave,

Sorry for the delayed reply, bit busy this morning.

no spanners, just good healthy and informative chatting.

Going off the main thrust of the thread and following up the points that you make, would that not be exemption based on passing the AAT skillscheck module rather than having MICB status though?

Its as I was saying above that there is nothing wrong with the ICB knowledge base. it's simply the lack of Ofqual recognition (Which James did explain excellently the reason for not pursueing in a chat with Nick on the site earlier this year).

I suppose, and probably need input from Nick or Sonya here, that it is down to training providers to justify the level that they start a student at and every case would need to be considered on it's own merit.

For example, if you had a PQ ACCA who decided that they couldn't go on any more so went ICB to practice as a bookkeeper (#1) then moved to AAT to reopen employment opportunities they would be judged by a training provider for exemptions quite different to someone who had only studied ICB.

The above said, I know that the ICB sylabus has changed so the difference between AAT level III and MICB may now be closer than they were and it may be a whole new playing field out there.

Plus of course, if a training provider consistently failed their students by starting them too high too soon then I don't think that it would be long before AAT yanked their chain.

I think that exemption from level II AAT with bookkeeping qualifications is quite common but examption from level III AAT would still to my mind be very much the exception rather than the norm.

As I say, we need input from the likes of Nick, Neil and Sonya who would be the gatekeepers to study levels in such scenario's.

Hope that you're having a good day Dave,

all the best,

Shaun.

#1 penny just dropped! I've mentioned a few times on the site that ICB have been advertising in PQ and my assumption was that was part of the reinvention of themselves towards a more accounts focus. It just clicked that the reality is that the ad's are aimed at the sheer number of ACCA students who fall by the wayside... Clever, clever ICB. 20 brownie points for James to distribute as he see's fit for spotting an opportunity and seizing it.

I'm still guessing that the bulk of PQ's at the professional level (Papers P1 through P7) who fall go IFA or AIA but there's a lot of scope there to pick up members from the fundamentals levels especially on the switch of exam style after F3 which is where it hits many what studying the qualification really entails.

Shamus wrote:

---

Afternoon Dave,

Sorry for the delayed reply, bit busy this morning.

no spanners, just good healthy and informative chatting.

Going off the main thrust of the thread and following up the points that you make, would that not be exemption based on passing the AAT skillscheck module rather than having MICB status though?

Its as I was saying above that there is nothing wrong with the ICB knowledge base. it's simply the lack of Ofqual recognition (Which James did explain excellently the reason for not pursueing in a chat with Nick on the site earlier this year).

I suppose, and probably need input from Nick or Sonya here, that it is down to training providers to justify the level that they start a student at and every case would need to be considered on it's own merit.

For example, if you had a PQ ACCA who decided that they couldn't go on any more so went ICB to practice as a bookkeeper (#1) then moved to AAT to reopen employment opportunities they would be judged by a training provider for exemptions quite different to someone who had only studied ICB.

The above said, I know that the ICB sylabus has changed so the difference between AAT level III and MICB may now be closer than they were and it may be a whole new playing field out there.

Plus of course, if a training provider consistently failed their students by starting them too high too soon then I don't think that it would be long before AAT yanked their chain.

I think that exemption from level II AAT with bookkeeping qualifications is quite common but examption from level III AAT would still to my mind be very much the exception rather than the norm.

As I say, we need input from the likes of Nick, Neil and Sonya who would be the gatekeepers to study levels in such scenario's.

Hope that you're having a good day Dave,

all the best,

Shaun.

#1 penny just dropped! I've mentioned a few times on the site that ICB have been advertising in PQ and my assumption was that was part of the reinvention of themselves towards a more accounts focus. It just clicked that the reality is that the ad's are aimed at the sheer number of ACCA students who fall by the wayside... Clever, clever ICB. 20 brownie points for James to distribute as he see's fit for spotting an opportunity and seizing it.

I'm still guessing that the bulk of PQ's at the professional level (Papers P1 through P7) who fall go IFA or AIA but there's a lot of scope there to pick up members from the fundamentals levels especially on the switch of exam style after F3 which is where it hits many what studying the qualification really entails.

---

Hi Shaun

 

Firstly it is me who should apologise to you as I have still not got around to replying to your PM which I will as soon as I get a spare hour, as you know I do like my long winded emails. I think this student has a specific goal to get to and is looking for the best and probably most cost effective way to get there, my line of thinking was on costs as Simone is already enrolled on to the ICB syllabus. I know through talking to Nick that MICB members can go straight to AAT4 with some providers and AAT providers if I am not mistaken can use their own judgement as to where a student can start based on other qualifications gained? Nick also advised me that no MICB member should ever start at Level 4 but Level 3 but the option is still there and your analogy Shaun is of course correct.

Nick and Sonya are the experts with AAT and Nicks response below underlines that fact.

I am good thanks Shaun, rather busy at the moment what the with new ICB syllabus change and getting to grips with all the different course packages but getting there slowly.

Will try and get a reply to you over the weekend, all the best mate

Dave

www.training-link.co.uk 

Hi Simone,

I followed the ICB path to MICB+ SA Diploma and then due to ICB taking a while to get their level 4 sorted out I switched to IFA. MICB was enough to allow me to register as a student to study IFA level 4 and passing the tax element+ethics allows you to apply for FTA membership( the tax faculty of the IFA).This combination would appear to cover your needs. You could then complete the other level 4 elements and move on to level 5 if you wish to become an accountant, as opposed to a bookkeeper+ tax adviser.(definitions of accountant, bookkeeper and tax adviser and the various qualifications are the subject of endless debate by the various Institutes, so please nobody hi- jack this thread):).

Regards

Gordon

Hi Simone,

The 5 years experience is if you are looking to join based on prior experience, where as the entry by qualification route is the way I was suggesting and followed myself. If you have a look at their website under the "routes to membership" tab it clarifies the 3 options. I would also suggest giving them a call next week and discussing your options.

 

Regards

 

Gordon

I did look at the route to membership and it mentioned the IAB but not the ICB - I think i will give them a call on Monday.

Afternoon Dave,

you and me both matey.

There even seems to be lack of consistency in offered exemptions with some bodies.

On the bright side, I suppose that calling HMRC we should all be used to the idea of if you want a different answer just talk to a different advisor!

Also, you may need to factor prior experience into Gordons answer as even if joining based on exemptions you still have to include prior experience and references from qualified practicing accountants.

Well, at least I did. Others may have had different experiences and I believe that the transition from IAB to IFA is quite a streamlined affair born of having once been very close bed fellows.

Hope that your having a good Sunday (I really must stop tinkering with my website and go cut the lawn),

Shaun.

p.s. also remember that joining at level 4 is being allowed to be a student, it's not admitance to full membeship.

Hi Dave,

Just to clarify, I did not seek any exemptions or use of prior experience but registered as a student to take Level 4 and then move on to level 5. So MICB was recognised as a prior qualification but gave no exemptions as such.

Regards

Gordon

Just as an update - i did decide to go down the ICB route and have just passed the first of the 3 level 2 exams via self study so pleased with that. I'm aiming to complete level 2 and 3 with the ICB and then decide between ICB level 4 or IFA level 4 with the long-term goal to do IFA level 5 - thanks again for all the advice