book-keeping software - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

pbr · Veteran Member

book-keeping software

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

The most widely used is the UK is Sage.

Quickbooks is growing in popularity here amongst bookkeepers due in no small part to Sage charging bookkeepers per client where Intuit (quickbooks) charges per implementation of there software.

A third desktop option (my practice software of choice) is VT which has a large following amongst accountants. Just take a look at the software recomendations on Accountingweb and you will see how well thought of VT is.

For cloud based approach you will come accross the likes of Xero, Kashflow and some others.

To a certain extent the software that you use is dictated by the software that your clients need to to use.

Generally as said above that will be Sage so that may be your safest bet.

Alternatively you could have my approach of telling clients that the software that they are using is not the best software for their business (provided that such is true) and move them onto the software that you use.

You really need to have the gift of the gab for that approach though. If you lack confidence then stick with Sage and you won't go far wrong (although you will be much poorer).

For Payroll software besides Sage Payroll there is much cheaper (in cost not functionality) 12pay and Moneysoft that are common choices of site members here.

kind regards,

Shaun.

pbr · Veteran Member

Thank you very much Shaun for your advice that will help me to choose wright software for me
Many thanks
minaxi

sofhiathomas · Newbie

Quickbooks is the one the best software for bookkeeping and it is also has a wide reach among the crowd. The next in the line would be Sage, which needs very less accounting knowledge and experience

Princess · Senior Member

I have only come across one or two people using Sage but many more using QuickBooks. This may be due to the fact that there is a Barclays in the town where I live and they promote QuickBooks so a lot of small businesses with an account there use it. Or it could be that it is so much more user friendly than Sage! And as Shaun says much cheaper. The reporting is much better as is making changes when you need to. I have mainly clients that aren't interested in seeing the software, they just want the bookkeeping done so I do it on my laptop and just send them some reports now and again which they are happy with. So I would pick something you like rather than what you think your clients might like.

pbr · Veteran Member

Thank you for your advise and i am very sorry for late repaly and now i have to make my mind wich one i can choose

Thank you all for your support and advise

many thanks

from

Minaxi

Kundan Lal Rana · Veteran Member

QuickBooks Online, Xero, Sage and FreshBooks are the most popular and widely used software, but the choice depends on your requirement. I recommend you the QuickBooks Online, as you are a startup.

-- Edited by Kundan Lal Rana on Monday 14th of July 2014 11:29:10 AM

Beeline · Newbie

Hi, I know this is an old post but hoping I can get some help regarding software. I'm just starting up my bookkeeping business. I won't be doing payroll. I've currently got Sage Instant Accounts as was trained up using this.

I've been reading up about the different desktop and cloud software options. If I had a client who was already set up with a desk top software and wanted to continue with the same software, would I need to purchase the same software in order to do their books or could I be given access to their network and use their software?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

depends on the software licensing.

For yourself where the client has no say on what software you use for them I strongly advise using VT for all businesses where you do not need stock control.

The reason is that with VT Transaction+ you can install it on more than one machine (provided that you are the only user) and you can service unlimited clients.

Something like Sage is great for box stackers and shifters but you need to pay a client tax in that the more businesses that you work with the more Sage will charge you.

Quickbooks was a contender due to allowing you to have many clients for one price but they seem to be movig away from the desktop market so I would no longer consider them as a serious option.

All cloud offerings are one version of the software per client, so each client pays. But, generally the bookkeeper / accountant will be able to access the software for free. That said there are a lot of issues with using the cloud including, security, availability and most importantly software companies holding your data to randsom.

For VT Transaction+ there is a two month free trial.

However, the sort of business model that you are looking at where you are not offering all services to a client (you don't offer payroll) may make VT a non starter for you as you are only really looking at being an independant bookkeeper for multiple busnesses using their software rather than offering a one stop solution where you can dictate the software used.

Think carefully about whether you need to add payroll in order to offer clients a one stop sollution that goes up to trial balance (and from there an accountant takes over).

Before you set up, think carefully about your business model and question how that compares to others offering bookkeeping services locally.

There is not as much call for pure bookkeeping as an independant service than some professional bodies and training companies would have you believe so make sure that you have a local market before starting a business.

kindest regards,

Shaun.

Beeline · Newbie

Thank you Shaun for your information regarding VT. I'm surprised about your thoughts regarding there not being much demand for a bookkeeper who doesn't offer payroll. I know plenty of bookkeepers who have too much work, who do not offer payroll. I was going to aim my services at sole traders and private individuals whom I can offer a full service to up to and including final accounts.

Payroll is something that I have thought about and may well add to my qualifications down the line. I'm guessing there are also small businesses who only have a couple of employees and therefore do their own payroll.

Thank you.

-- Edited by Beeline on Sunday 16th of August 2015 09:27:23 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Ah, sorry, you are an Accountant, thats different.

I don't currently offer payroll services either (although I've still ended up running a couple).

From your first post I thought that you were only offering services up to trial balance. My mistake.

Good luck with the new venture,

kind regards,

Shaun.

TrevorD · Senior Member

Morning Shaun

I guess this is where it gets a little confusing, for people, as you say some orgs allow and training providers train - bookkeepers to go beyond the trial balance and even file tax returns. So perhaps they are accountants !!

www.bookkeepers.org.uk/Membership

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Beeline wrote:
Hi, I know this is an old post but hoping I can get some help regarding software. I'm just starting up my bookkeeping business. I won't be doing payroll. I've currently got Sage Instant Accounts as was trained up using this.

I've been reading up about the different desktop and cloud software options. If I had a client who was already set up with a desk top software and wanted to continue with the same software, would I need to purchase the same software in order to do their books or could I be given access to their network and use their software?
Thank you Shaun for your information regarding VT. I'm surprised about your thoughts regarding there not being much demand for a bookkeeper who doesn't offer payroll. I know plenty of bookkeepers who have too much work, who do not offer payroll. I was going to aim my services at sole traders and private individuals whom I can offer a full service to up to and including final accounts.

Payroll is something that I have thought about and may well add to my qualifications down the line. I'm guessing there are also small businesses who only have a couple of employees and therefore do their own payroll.

Thank you.

-- Edited by Beeline on Sunday 16th of August 2015 09:27:23 PM

Hi Nicky

You will not be able to use your Sage Instant unless you purchase/have extra licences for each client. I may be wrong but I thought instant came with just one licence. I use Sage, but not instant.

If your client already uses a desktop version and doesnt want to change it then I expect you will be working from that clients premises rather than from home. Certainly in the market you are targeting there are probably very few who are on networks, plus as Shaun indicates there may be issues with licensing with such software.

It sounds like you may be in a great place where there requirement for bookkeepers far outstrips the number of bookkeepers and given that you know a few I would be talking to them about taking on some of their overload in some way.

It does surprise me that so many of the bookkeepers do not offer payroll as well, but are these clients then getting that service from their Accountants instead? All the clients Ive come across want one or the other to do it, certainly on a personal level Ive not come across one who will oustource their bookkeeping but keep the payroll in house. If you are an Accountant I would certainly collaborate with someone you can pass the work too in the event of being asked as there are a lot of small businesses who have more than just a couple of employees - I look after two who both have 10 employees.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

TrevorD wrote:
Morning Shaun

I guess this is where it gets a little confusing, for people, as you say some orgs allow and training providers train - bookkeepers to go beyond the trial balance and even file tax returns. So perhaps they are accountants !!

www.bookkeepers.org.uk/Membership

But that organisation doesnt call them Accountants!

TrevorD · Senior Member

Hi Joanne

I know they are not Accountants - Shaun feels that bookkeeping stops at the trial balance (and I agree with him) and beyond is the realm of accountancy. I was trying to make the point that some bookkeepers, do go beyond the tb !! and licenced by their professional body.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

TrevorD wrote:
Morning Shaun

I guess this is where it gets a little confusing, for people, as you say some orgs allow and training providers train - bookkeepers to go beyond the trial balance and even file tax returns. So perhaps they are accountants !!

www.bookkeepers.org.uk/Membership

Hi Trevor,

and in such instance the organisation is simply using the word bookkeeper for marketing purposes in an attempt to claim some form of differentiation from their competition.

Bookkeeping stops at trial balance. Everything beyond that is accountancy.

The AAT syllabus is not dissimilar to the ICB one but AAT people are Accountants where ICB one's are bookkeepers?

The arguement that ICB is a bookkeeping organisation seems to use the logic that the term bookkeeper is defined by the size of business one services rather than the work one does for that business.

I am not saying that its a bad thing that people do not stop their services at trial balance as many would find it difficult to find work if they did not. However finding work through feigned differentiation of the business that one is in is just smoke and mirrors for marketing purposes.

When the ICB started it genuinely was about bookkeeping but teaching enough accountancy for members to realise what they were doing. Thats a good thing.

I fear though that over time the realisation that what they had was a qualification geared towards self employment (employers and agents demand a minimum of AAT and/or relevant experience) and that micro businesses in general want a one stop solution has over time made them realise that members need to offer accounting services to attract clients.

You cannot argue that an ICB person is a bookkeeper that offers accounting services as, as soon as you offer accounting services you are not a bookkeeper.

Now, lets not confuse this correction of terminology as some anti ICB rant. Its not and I don't intend to be anti ICB. Just anti spin.

What ICB has done which is right is that they have prised open a backdoor into the profession for carreer changers who might otherwise have found themselves locked out of it. They do a good job of teaching people entry level accountancy. And they have firmly targeted themselves at the Micro business who might otherwise have attempted to go it alone without any representation at all.

But, (there's always at least one of those) they need to get away from all of this spin that they think that people are too stupid to see. Mainly, there are not 4.6million busineses that need a bookkeeper, there is absolutely no shortage of bookkeepers in the market, they do not represent the majority of the people working as bookkeepers, and going beyond trial balance is not bookkeeping.

TrevorD · Senior Member

Its a shame they haven't broke into the employment agencies and employers.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

TrevorD wrote:
Its a shame they haven't broke into the employment agencies and employers.

all a case of supply and demand Trevor.

Agents advertise for AAT and up to restrict the number of CV's that they have to wade through.

I would not for one moment dream to suggest that every AAT person knows more and is better at there job than every ICB person. Its just a simply logistics thing in that you need some restriction on the CV's in order to get to a reasonable number of CV's to wade through when looking for someone with the right experience.

Now, some searches of electronic CV's would actively look for specific words, whilst other agent searches may reject CV's on the basis of specific words in order to bring the number of search results down. (you just put minus in front of a word, i.e. -ICB -IAB -BTEC -guilds -Pitman). My eldest boy worked for a few years in recruitment and we've discussed this and many other recruitment agency issues at length... He now works in a different industry!

so, imagine the instance that you have someone who was ICB, moved to AAT and then up to ACCA. They've got the relevant experience and know the right software but with that search the mere mention of ICB on their CV would mean that their CV is never considered even though they may be the perfect person for the position.

Training agents that ICB is better than they perceive it will make no difference as an agent is attempting to find the right people for a role but do not have the time to go through a deluge of CV's so will restrict their search often unfairly so that they have only a dozen or so potentials whereas including ICB amongst the CV's those who have applied for a position would no doubt return hundreds.

Yes its an unfair system that often finds the right people not even getting their CV's read but when Agents and Employers are calling the tune and there is so much choice in the market place you need to dance to their song. So, if you want to keep the option of employment open and you want to get to market quickly (two years or less), then you study AAT.

Thats not saying that you will not find work as an ICB person. Its not saying that all agents and employers are so restrictive. But as was seen in that FRC article that I posted the other day. In such instance employers are more likely to be looking for specific software expertise and several years of relevant experience in practice... And as noted above even then you still have the agent searches to circumvent which could actually end up prioritising no qualification with the right software over someone with a qualification!!!.... How crazy is that!!!

TrevorD · Senior Member

It certainly is - I have been doing some limited research using advanced job searches, on Indeed - using CIPP, ICB, Sage, bookkeeper, payroll etc and its amazing what comes out. The most interesting is CIPP - they all say CIPP qualified (not which one or level) or studying towards CIPP !!!

You are also right on specific software and versions.

-- Edited by TrevorD on Monday 17th of August 2015 04:24:50 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

robert-sapiencecloud wrote:
I see you might have got the answer already. Best online hosting software is quickbooks. I have been using the software from Sxxxxxx cloud from quite sometime. YOu can check the link below & speak to them They also offer 24/7 tech support.

www.dontbotherwithit. us tripe.

Using the software for a 'long time', yet it's taken you since 2015 to respond to this post. Wonder why we won't believe you.

Using the software for a long time, you say how great it is.....yet its your own bloody software.....do you think we are too stupid to notice the connection between the software name in your post and the fact that you work for this same software company.

It is clear that you are the stupid one....advertising a US product on a UK website, without first checking the site rules nor getting permission from the owners to drop your spammy advertising drivel. Youve won today's f**kwit award. Only beaten by the Indian spammers to the f**kwit of the week award.

edited for typos

-- Edited by Cheshire on Sunday 12th of February 2017 11:16:37 AM

VinceH · Expert

The use of 'sapience' in the name is somewhat ironic.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Cheshire wrote:
robert-sapiencecloud wrote:
I see you might have got the answer already. Best online hosting software is quickbooks. I have been using the software from Sxxxxxx cloud from quite sometime. YOu can check the link below & speak to them They also offer 24/7 tech support.

www.dontbotherwithit. us tripe.
It is clear that you are the stupid one....advertising a US product on a UK website, without first checking the site rules nor getting permission from the owners to drop your spammy advertising drivel. Youve won today's f**kwit award. Only beaten by the Indian spammers to the f**kwit of the week award.

Yes, referring to the software as a third party but then calling yourself the software name, isn't the most intelligent thing to do

I've said it before but I think new sign ups should have to complate a short webform telling us their skills, training or QBE, qualifications etc, and a bit about themselves This will help two fold, cut down on the spammers, and help us to pitch answers at the right level. You could start the form by saying, this is a forum for bookkeepers and accountants, and people working in the accountancy sector.

abacus12345 · Guru

Who needs software?

I prefer jumbo wax crayons.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

abacus12345 wrote:
Who needs software?

I prefer jumbo wax crayons.

I tried them but ran out of storage space, so it was back toi the drawing board for me on that one!

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Leger wrote:
You could start the form by saying, this is a forum for bookkeepers and accountants, and people working in the accountancy sector.

I noticed that Aweb eventually changed their website blurb to something similar after last years debarcle of 'anyone can post/ask a question and anytone can answer'. Although that hasnt stopped the freeloaders and ridiculousness of the 'anonymous' posts. I dont see much spam but dont go on there as much as here. Would be so much better if the forum sort of 'forced' an intro of some sort but it could still scare away the shy retiring ones who we can generally get an intro from by being welcoming I guess. At least its an open forum, unlike some!

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Having an anonymous option is just asking for trouble imo. There's not much spam, but there's some bloody stupid questions!! Makes me laugh when they reply to the thread and it publishes their user name biggrin

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Mumbai...

katherine · Newbie

When it comes to selecting the best bookkeeping software for your start-up, you will get various options. All you need is to select the best one according to your requirements. But, if I need to suggest you then I will name QuickBooks hosting since you're a start-up.

Sorry, I banned the other person first before I realised that you were obviously sharing their PC s appologies... I mean, what other expalnation could there be! Obviously as uyou posted first you win for being the first person from Nepal to be banned.

Nice line there in the sales patter. I read that as... Since you're a startup you are probably too dumb to question anything that sounds even relotely official and as if the advice holds any water.

Bye.

santoshrana · Newbie

Well, there are many bookkeeping software which is widely used over the world for accounting purpose like < cloud rubbish >, < Spam >, <more cloudy stuff >, etc but Nowadays most of the company prefer to host QuickBooks which means accounting software installed on the network server hosted over the internet < You need to tell us this why? >. So hosted Quickbooks < there it is, Oops, the link broke > can be accessible from any location. Some of the benefits of using Quickbooks are:

1. unlimited data backup - everything has limits. But fair nuff,

2. better data security - better than what? How is anything that is beyond your control more secure.

3. easy to use - Compared to what?

4. multiple users - must phone Bill Gares about this new innovation!!!

These are just boiler plate statements that could be describing any software.

On the bright side you are the first person that I've banned in Nepal... Congratulations

-- Edited by Shamus on Monday 13th of January 2020 05:22:49 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Most company prefer QB.

Don't you mean companies.

If you do insist on peddling non fact, don't you also mean QBO. Which wouldn't need to be hosted.

Double posting Mr mod, see thelast two signature links and profiles.

Casu · Senior Member

They really do have no idea of their target market do they?

Edited to correct typos

-- Edited by Casu on Monday 13th of January 2020 01:15:00 PM

RuskinF · Member

There are various software that would do the job for you.
I would suggest you use the most widely used software, as these software have large user bases and relatively easier to ask help from community.
QuickBooks is the first suggestion that comes to my mind.
Other than that there is Xero and sage as well.
But, QuickBooks would be highly advised by the community.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

RuskinF wrote:
There are various software that would do the job for you.
I would suggest you use the most widely used software, as these software have large user bases and relatively easier to ask help from community.
QuickBooks is the first suggestion that comes to my mind.
Other than that there is Xero and sage as well.
But, QuickBooks would be highly advised by the community.

Not highly advised by this community. For reasons made pretty damned obvious to anyone who can be bothered to read it, rather than just dig up old posts from 2014!

Serial zombie post digger alert

-- Edited by Cheshire on Tuesday 11th of February 2020 02:18:27 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

RuskinF wrote:
There are various software that would do the job for you.
I would suggest you use the most widely used software, as these software have large user bases and relatively easier to ask help from community.
QuickBooks is the first suggestion that comes to my mind.
Other than that there is Xero and sage as well.
But, QuickBooks would be highly advised by the community.

Which community would that be then?

That you are posting here would suggest that its this one but I am seeing no evidence to support that claim.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Hi Shaun

I'm guessing the Quickbooks community.

https://quickbooks.intuit.com/learn-s upport/uk-quickbooks-community/misc/03/community-uk

Like Joanne said, definitely not our community. Eager to see if Ruskin wants to develop this thread and to see how we have progressed in our thoughts towards the cloudy stuff.

EDIT: Changed font size on link, appeared massive when I pasted it so reduced it but nothing happened on screen, but when I posted it was really small

-- Edited by Leger on Tuesday 11th of February 2020 04:24:53 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Leger wrote:
Hi Shaun
I'm guessing the Quickbooks community.
https://quickbooks.intuit.com/learn-s upport/uk-quickbooks-community/misc/03/community-uk
Like Joanne said, definitely not our community. Eager to see if Ruskin wants to develop this thread and to see how we have progressed in our thoughts towards the cloudy stuff.
EDIT: Changed font size on link, appeared massive when I pasted it so reduced it but nothing happened on screen, but when I posted it was really small

-- Edited by Leger on Tuesday 11th of February 2020 04:24:53 PM

The biggest crock of you know what. Their help stuff is all over the place mostly because the products are not the same! Bit like my suspicions - wrong side on el pondoland (what was Vince's word?)

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Overpudlian I think.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Ah yes thank John, that's the one.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Ah yes thank John, that's the one.

VinceH · Expert

Slight speelink error: Overpuddlian - but other than that, well remembered. ;)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
Slight speelink error: Overpuddlian - but other than that, well remembered. ;)

Thank you Vince! wink

Leger · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
Slight speelink error: Overpuddlian - but other than that, well remembered. ;)

Ah DD, that works wonders!!

Cheers Vince.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Leger wrote:
VinceH wrote:
Slight speelink error: Overpuddlian - but other than that, well remembered. ;)
Ah DD, that works wonders!!
Cheers Vince.

Especially in a party six biggrin