I'm currently running my own little bookkeeping / accounting business and have just about reached full capacity (I only work part time but have two kids to look after as well!). I can't afford to take on an experienced member of staff, but I'm considering going down the Apprentice route. Has anyone had any experience with Apprentices?! I'm hoping for someone to deal with the more mundane tasks - filing, credit control, basic bookkeeping, etc. - and it would hopefully someone who can help drum up more business which will hopefully cover their wages initially. The trouble is my current clients are expanding and need me more but there's no way I can fit it all in!
Hi Liz,
I've been down the apprentice route a couple of times. My last one had so much time off with all sorts of excuses I had to get rid pretty quickly. The problem is with apprentices is that they are not used to what is expected as they have never worked before! My previous apprentice was 17 (as opposed to 16) and was really driven and left me for a bigger firm after about 6 or 7 months!
I would say interview a few apprentices but be clear in your mind what you want and don't be afraid to tell the college that none were suitable. A young person with the right attitude can certainly do the jobs you are looking at but I doubt that they will be very helpful in bringing in any new business and of course you will have to invest time in training the apprentice, what you find simple may well be quite an ordeal for a while to someone new to the business.
During the interviews I tested candidates on being able to translate a time sheet that says 25 hours and 35 minutes into a decimal for entering into payroll. I started off with an easy 30 minutes to see if they understood if this is half an hour then I wanted 0.5 entered. They don't all get it.
I also had some paperwork for them to file alphabetically, just half a dozen sheets but again it showed any obvious weaknesses quickly.
We have an apprentice who has been with us for two years now. It takes quite a time investment in the beginning as most apprentices have never worked in an office environment before and need lots of training. However, our apprentice is now invaluable and has picked things up really quickly. You need to make sure you get the right apprentice for you and your business. Your local provider will help you with this. Our apprentice has one day at college each week to study and working while studying really works for him as he can see the practical application of the theory. When we got our apprentice, the government gave us a grant so that half the wages were paid by them and half by us. They may still be running these schemes in your area, so that is also something to look into.
Another option for you could be outsourcing. Outsourcing the accounts or bookkeeping work, would enable you to focus on the customer care for your existing clients and building your client base until you get into a position where you can afford to take on an experienced member of staff. We are an outsourced provider for several accountants and bookkeepers who use us either as a short term option to cope with busy periods or an interim between taking on an extra staff member or just to do work that they don't want to or don't feel able to do.
You could also to take a look at your client list and weed out the unprofitable clients. We have all come across those clients who take up a lot of time, are late paying and have unreasonable demands on our time. Do you have any of these that you can disengage? It often pays to get rid of a bad client and replace them with two or three clients who take up the same amount of time as the one you have disengaged.
I've thought about getting rid of some clients - I have a few little tax return ones which are no problem (apart from demanding I do their accounts the second they deliver them to me!), and what I call three 'big' ones, i.e. they like me on site on certain days. They all bring in money, but at one in particular I barely do any bookkeeping, just loads of admin / sitting around as I think he just likes having someone there! Trouble is it's 12 hours a week and I'm loathed to ditch it as that's a lot of hours to fill! I'm also painfully shy when it comes to drumming up new business - I'm definitely not a great salesperson!
I like the idea of testing the Apprentices! I'll definitely be doing that.......
I have a meeting with the Apprentice provider next week so I'll keep you posted!
Your just mean Rob. 35 minutes is a horrible one. I hope that you at least let them use a calculator.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I explain how to do it if they don't understand, so I'll say 'well you know 15 minutes is a quarter of an hour and that a quarter is 0.25 but do you know how to calculate that with a calculator' If they say 'no', I'll show them how to divide 15 by 60 and then ask them to try 30 minutes and then go for the 35 minutes or whatever. It is more about understanding the concept. The mean part is that whilst they are doing the sums I shout abuse at them and stick needles into their hands....they need to know how to work under pressure!
I would have gone with seeing whether they went straight for 35/60*100 or tried to do it long hand... I'm liking the pressure test although I would probably go with the wrapping a ruler accross their knuckles which is far more old school.
I'm quite kind at interview and ask candiates what seems like obvious questions so that they can go away happy that they answered the question correctly.... But... I'm actually looking for something in the way that they think as much as the answer that they give.
For example. This ones a typical interview question that I would ask :
Q) You sell a product for £20, fixed costs are negligible. Variable costs are £5. If we sell 100 units what is the profit.
There are two ways that they could go, either (20*100)-(5*100) or the faster (20-5)*100
Whichever they choose its just a leader question to give the candidate confidence (If they failed one that simple I would be worried).
I follow that up with now what would happen if we run a 10% off promotion.
Weaker candidates will go for (20*.9)-5*100
Stronger candidates will go straight to what effect will the promotion have on sales volume (where I give follow up information that there is a 20% increase in sales).
Thats also testing the candidates confidence in asking the right questions.
The key though is that whatever answer the candidate gives they go away from the interview feeling that they gave a good showing with the weaker candidates thinking that the questions were easy so they must have sailed it.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Ha, and you think I'm hard! You should throw in a bit of fixed costs and ask what the break even point is! And what the break even point is if you discount by 10%!
You have all missed the principle test - how to switch on the kettle (while we are still allowed a kettle!!)
Having done an old school (very old school) 5 year indentured apprenticeship in engineering, where my parents had to sign my soul over to the employer (aka slave master), and the contract was handwritten (copperplate style) on legal parchment (seriously) I never saw any real work for the first year. All the usual things, lots of watching skilled people, cleaning tools and equipment, making the workshop tea, cake run etc. having said that I wouldn't have wanted it any other way from a skill acquiring point of view.
Seriously though, at the end of the day, an apprentice is not supposed to be cheap labour (£2.73 an hour!!), and if done right is probably a money loser for a while, then coming into their own, having acquired the necessary skills to say "Thanks a lot, I'm leaving now to start my own business.
This is the stage I am at, get rid of a couple that I don't like and then if I take on anymore I will have to outsource, big step which I am not really sure about. I don't really want to turn work away but the next phone I might just have to do that which is annoying.
Amanda rather than turning the work down increase your fees, they will either leave anyway or accept and you can then start increasing the fees to existing clients, I would start with new clients and your worst clients as you wont care if they go. I have recently increased fees across the board from 10% to over 100% and no one has left so far and any that do will always be looking for a cheap option and if a few go by the wayside and I still earn the same from fewer clients then I'm happy!
I've just started doing that Rob and so far they are all happy! I've got a few more to send out this month and all new ones are at a higher rate anyway, so far no one has left or thought I was expensive!
There was a great blog by Mark Lee recently on grading your customers A-D and getting rid of the D listers. I've recently gone through a similar process as I have a few who are always late paying dont turn up with paperwork when they're supposed to then expect VAT Returns etc to be completed immediately. I find it really hard to turn clients away but I've had to toughen up and take the emotional ties out of the equation and increase fees accordingly. Liz although 12 hours may seem a lot to replace could it be replaced by less hours at a better rate?
I always find the grading of clients interesting and a useful exercise. Did he define A,B, C and D clients. In my mind it would be something like this:
A clients who pay a good fee, on time and they give you no hassle
B clients, pay a middle fee, on time and give you no hassle
C clients, pay a high fee eventually but always questioning stuff, don't bring things in on time, bit of a pain in the rear
D Clients, low fees, high maintenance, when they call your heart sinks!
Of course one persons D client might be another's B client. But that's a good point that if you can recognise the D's, whack on a heft increase, at least 30%, maybe 100% if you really don't care if they leave. Perhaps the C's get a 20% increase and the B's a 10%.
Ooh, how we'd love a portfolio full of A clients! I have considered putting fees up but my main client is my brother and I've just put his fees up considerably as they've moved to bigger offices miles away.
Amanda, great to hear that your maxed out as well - it's a nice position to be in but also quite daunting! My problem is my children (well, not them personally, just the issue of looking after them!). My plan was to slowly expand until my youngest went to school which is still two years away, but it happened slightly earlier than expected!
I didn't think about the tea making aspect of having an apprentice - I'm pretty much sold on the idea just because of that! Unless they make a bad cup, then they're out (is that grounds for dismissal in the eyes of the law?!).
Actually the tea making question is quite important. My first apprentice, who was good (though not as good as she thought) was not happy making teas, running the hoover around or doing the filing. Within a month she had delusions of grandeur and expected to be involved in meetings, no doubt heading up the board. I think it's really important to list all the jobs you expect the apprentice to be doing including all the mundane stuff that Bill had to do at the Workhouse! I would let them know that meeting and greeting (including tea/coffee making), keeping their area (and beyond) clean, tidy and vacuumed, filing, checking in work that has arrived, calling for those missing bank statements, credit control etc is part of the job along with learning bookkeeping, payroll, accounts etc. But heading up the board meetings may have to wait until they are 17!
