at the moment I am trying to learn how to use sage and I think this software is terrible. Well, I don't have any point of reference cause I don't know other accounting software but my first impression is that this software is really terrible. Who shares the same opinion and why?
Refer to pretty much every post that I've written mentioning Sage (there have been quite a few).
I don't like that it tries to make itself idiot proof and in doing do it makes itself slow to use and unforgiving of minor typos.
I really don't like the Sage pay per company client tax
I don't see why I have to close off a period in order to move to the next one.
I hate nominal codes with a vengeance (what use are they beyond Sage software!).
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
i don't have too much knowledge in relation to accounting software but it seems to me that activity section is important since it gives you the idea of what was going on the account before. In Sage, if you want to know what happened earlier on customer account you press ' activity' button. To me it is very difficult to follow this activity section. It is organized in my opinion in a way that makes it really difficult for you to follow earlier transactions on accounts.
i wish it was possible to find out what was balance after every transaction in the past. You can have only present balance in activity section plus you can have only debits and credits of past transactions in activity section
It would be a bit extreme to do this every time, but if you order a nominal transaction report (excluding no transactions) between your start date and required date then this would give you the balance at a certain date. Also when you key an item the balance is displayed on each nominal code, supplier account etc, alhough yes if you needed this very time it wouldn't help you. I'm afraid I don't know of a software package that does, but I am a sage user. Is there a specific reason why you wish to get balances as you go along - a confidence thing or a business need?
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I don't like that it tries to make itself idiot proof
Interesting. I wouldn't say it tries to do that - IMO, something that attempts to give the user an input screen that vaguely resembles what they are inputting, and is thus hand-holding them, is trying to be idiot proof.
Sage does that in some ways (e.g. display what is supposed, to a certain extent, resemble a cheque at the top of the screen when entering a supplier payment) but for most input screens, it doesn't.
and in doing do it makes itself slow to use
And because of the above, I find that quite an odd criticism.
Most of the input screens on Sage give you a spreadsheet style grid, one line per entry, one column per field - and provide useful shortcuts. In particular: F6 to copy the field above, Ctrl-F6 to copy and increment the field above - bloody useful for entering consecutively numbered items.
Compare that with software that uses the one screen per item being input - and it's easy to see why I can enter a whole raft of paperwork in Sage a lot faster than I can do on that type of software.
(Which arguably means I should be using other software... the jobs would take longer, and I'd earn more money!)
and unforgiving of minor typos.
Baffled by that one, TBH. What software isn't, if the typo is going to affect how something is interpreted?
I really don't like the Sage pay per company client tax.
I couldn't agree more on that one.
Not to mention the limited amount of free support, and the inability to distinguish between different types of support, and bug reports. IMO, charging for some types of support is justifiable, but some isn't.
I don't see why I have to close off a period in order to move to the next one.
I think that's largely a historical artifact that has been brought forward from the early days, when the software was designed to only really hold the current year's data.
Having said that, if you close off a year in Sage, and then post a late transaction (dated in the closed year), that transaction can be automatically included in this year's figures.
How does software that doesn't require you to close off a year do that?
I hate nominal codes with a vengeance (what use are they beyond Sage software!).
All accounting and bookkeeping software - and manual accounting before it - uses nominal codes. It's just that they might not be generally referred to as nominal codes, per se. I think your complaint is really about the second word of the pair: codes, and that in Sage you refer to the account by the number (its code).
Other reasons to dislike Sage:
Inconsistent user interface paradigms in different parts of the software.
Silly bugs in the code.
The Sage tax. (Oh, you mentioned that... well, it's a case of so bad I mentioned it again!)
-- Edited by VinceH on Sunday 7th of December 2014 10:42:50 AM
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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
You all know my view, and its largely based on the first half of Vince's post..
I have used many versions of software, as both the bookkeeper, and the accountant using the reports.
As the bookkeeper I find the competitors: time consuming, having to click into each section of the page; restrictive - as far as adding new codes to suit my needs; usually lacking on the VAT code side; and the reports are spread out in a non concise way.. and, most cloud software means you can only view one thing at a time.
As the accountant, it can be overly time consuming trying to work back to where a client has gone wrong, or, linking up two transactions, and, certain reports aren't available, or, as good as they could be. And of course, a lot of them allow clients to change transactions, without stopping them because its from the year before, or, because it will affect a previous VAT return's figures, and then, there is very little evidence to show that they indeed changed the transaction. The cost of correcting all that is not pretty, sometimes.
My summation is that Sage is not bubbly and pretty, and it requires a little learning, but its well worth it. I keep waiting for another cheaper software to blow me away so I can move over.. and I welcome new clients who bring me opportunities to work on new packages.. but so far, I am just frustrated by what's out there.
The new Sage CT looks pretty good though.. cant wait to dump Onesource, and move over.
Single input screen with predictive entry, copy & paste etc.
No nominal codes (unless you want to use them... Why would anyone want to opt to use them?). (#1)
No closing periods off
If you make a mistake simply delete the entry and do it again.
I tend to judge Sage by comparrison but fully appreciate that others opinions may differ from my own.
I'm sure that some will try VT and hate it as the simplicity of the software which replicates manual bookkeeping undermines much of the effort that people have invested in becoming an expert end user of the Sage offering.
All in all I stand by my first reply but as I say, those are only my opinions and others may differ,
kind regards,
Shaun.
#1 I don't feel that we are talking about the same things when you refer to nominal codes as an account number where I am refering to Sage nominals as telling the software (for example) what sort of expense you are entering. What you are refering to as nominals I would refer to as an account reference number which is no different to a bank account number. I would not refer to that as a nominal.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I was thinking of you when I started to reply as I know that you were one of those who tried VT and didn't like it.
Fully appreciate that it's not software for everyone but worth noting though that whilst you can change / correct pretty much anything with VT if entries have been used in producing a VAT return they are locked unless you delete that VAT return first so there are no worries on that one from that software.
On the reports side, for financial accounting you really need to also have VT Accounts in order to produce IRIS comparable statutory accounts. Within VT+ most of the reports can be manipulated and as with all major accounting packages everything can be easily dropped to Excel for specific reporting requirements.
As with yourself I do not consider any current cloud offerings as software geared towards practice.
Hope that you are having a good Sunday,
kindest regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Single input screen with predictive entry, copy & paste etc.
The Universal Input Screen doesn't have predictive entry unless you double click on a cell. It has predictive entry elsewhere though. But having a deleted entry just because of a simple mistake (like a wrong date) when it would be much easier just to edit the entry is one of the most annoying things about Sage.
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The Universal input screen is something different really built around the idea of bulk loads.
What I was saying was that VT had a single input screen, not that it was the single input screen was the only way to enter data.
There are also individual input screens, the universal input (Which I normally simply load up from Excel if I use that) as well as the P+R button which is what I was referring to.
As you say, you can just edit the entries rather than deleting them. You can also split existing entries if you need to with minimal fuss. (particularly useful where clients are cash businesses and bulk deposits where the amounts don't match the transactions (remainders sitting in petty cash until end of periods where they get dropped to drawings unless made good in the interim).
I do find it useful to keep notes within each record as to why I amended it and also I tend to zero, comment and copy (with the reference number of the new record in the comment section of the original) rather than simply deleting so that I have a personal built in audit trail but then thats just good practice.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
' As the accountant, it can be overly time consuming trying to work back to where a client has gone wrong, or, linking up two transactions, and, certain reports aren't available, or, as good as they could be. And of course, a lot of them allow clients to change transactions, without stopping them because its from the year before, or, because it will affect a previous VAT return's figures, and then, there is very little evidence to show that they indeed changed the transaction. The cost of correcting all that is not pretty, sometimes. '
it is very important what foxaccountancy wrote here. At least in my opinion.
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
The issue is that one software doesnt suit every clients needs.
Each accountant/bookkeeper will have their own preference.
Thats why we offer 2 desktop solutions; VT and SAGE and 2 cloud solutions; Xero and Freeagent and recommend each based on what we think would suit the client best.
We use SAGE for doing bookkeeping for any clients that want us to do the bookkeeping/VAT returns but that is mainly because our experience is historically in SAGE.
We are moving more and more clients onto Xero, moved my own accounts over to Xero last week, and are currently Silver partners. Starting to see the benefits of the bank feeds, linking to receipt bank and working with clients during the year rather that just dealing with their accounts after the year end.
Whilst I have no aversion to using Sage (I started off my career in bookkeeping being given a copy of Sage at work and told "off you go") I find it's unforgiving nature when you do make a mistake, vastly off putting.
Like Shaun, I am a big advocate of VT+, it really is a cracking piece of kit.
Speaking of nominal codes, I was once asked to do a rush job on some end of year accounts, and after submitting PL, TB and BS to the accountants, they emailed me back and asked for the nominal codes!!! I think the poor guy who was inputting the details was lost without them.
Sage does allow you to correct a mistake, in File/Maintenance. The only thing you cant correct is journals.. you have to reverse them instead. I thought I had heard that's actually been changed on the newer version but maybe I dreamt it. I use an adjustments bank account for certain journal items, so that I have the option to correct it without a rigmarole.
I actually like codes, because I use bespoke codes all the time, and I know the coding area they are in.. trying to remember the names of the codes would do my head in! LOL I just need to know the first 2 digits and I am flying.
Like Mark says its all about the person using it.. what's good for one, might totally confuse another. Like Mark, I know Sage.. all self taught over the years. I find the newer versions are getting better and better and I am looking into buying 2015 to see how it handles the new MOSS scheme VAT returns.. I'll be interested to read that thread on software, once 20 April hits!
-- Edited by FoxAccountancyServices on Monday 8th of December 2014 10:15:02 AM
It would be a bit extreme to do this every time, but if you order a nominal transaction report (excluding no transactions) between your start date and required date then this would give you the balance at a certain date. Also when you key an item the balance is displayed on each nominal code, supplier account etc, alhough yes if you needed this very time it wouldn't help you. I'm afraid I don't know of a software package that does, but I am a sage user. Is there a specific reason why you wish to get balances as you go along - a confidence thing or a business need?
I think it is confidence thing in my case. I need to know what led to present balances.
The only thing you cant correct is journals.. you have to reverse them instead. I thought I had heard that's actually been changed on the newer version but maybe I dreamt it.
You can correct a journal mistake by doing a reversing journal in the nominal module but you still need to do a journal to enter the correct journal.
Not yet, other than a very brief play some time ago.
I do want to give it a proper try out - along with every other package I can get my hands on (whether that's the full package for free or dirt cheap, or a demo version if it's more costly), but what I want to do first is write up a consistent set of test scenarios that cover all the main things I need, whether that's every day things or once in a blue moon things, as well as those I commonly see when sorting out other people's mess.
That same set of scenarios will then also be my starting point for a more ambitious, long term project - though with my increasingly limited time, it's a project that may never get off the ground.
Single input screen with predictive entry, copy & paste etc.
Predictive entry is useful - but not a selling point over and above Sage, since that also has predictive entry (although Sage's is a bit fumbly at times). Copy and paste isn't so much a selling point, either, since it would be criminal if it didn't support that!
No nominal codes (unless you want to use them... Why would anyone want to opt to use them?). (#1)
*mutter*
I'll come back to that in reply to your footnote!
No closing periods off
So what happens if you enter a late transaction after you're done with a period?
I can already see the answer to that on VT's website: "Periods can be locked (and unlocked subject to password protection)" - well, as far as I'm concerned, that's just "closing off" by another name and mechanism.
I can see from the manual that you can't enter a transaction that is dated in a closed/locked period. This is the disadvantage with a simplistic period lock, rather than a more full closing off such as Sage's. If I close down a company's year, because it's supposedly all done and dusted, and I am then handed a supplier invoice that has been received ultra-late (which happens a little too often for my tastes, but I can't control other people!), with Sage I can enter it with the correct date, and still have it automatically included in the current year.
Sage's method might be a little more involved than a simple period lock, but with some of my clients, the benefit is quite clear. (Though to be fair, it wouldn't be the end of the world to work within the constraints of VT's methodology- this isn't a make or break tick in my to-be-written list of tests!)
If you make a mistake simply delete the entry and do it again.
So just like Sage, then. :p
#1 I don't feel that we are talking about the same things when you refer to nominal codes as an account number
I didn't, per se: I expressed my suspicion ("I think your complaint is...") that that's what you were referring to!
where I am refering to Sage nominals as telling the software (for example) what sort of expense you are entering. What you are refering to as nominals I would refer to as an account reference number which is no different to a bank account number. I would not refer to that as a nominal.
It doesn't matter how you refer to it: I'm talking about the a core principle.
If a company pays £100 in respect of a magazine advert, then it gets debited to advertising - whether that's one generic line, or a more specific one for magazine advertising. It doesn't matter one iota if you call it a "nominal account", or an "expense account" (or, according to VT's manual, an "analysis ledger or account"), or whether you refer to it by a numeric code, and call that a "nominal code" or an "account reference number".
At the end of the day, it's all the same thing, just referred to (descriptively, and by method of access) differently - so to criticise Sage for using something that you are using anyway, just calling something else, is, IMO, being disingenuous.
I agree that Sage is bad for many reasons - but some of the ones you give (or give as advantages of other software) aren't quite what they seem, and strike me as being somewhat semantic.
[Edits: corrections of formatting problems - vanishing paragraph breaks after hitting submit]
-- Edited by VinceH on Saturday 13th of December 2014 10:52:20 AM
-- Edited by VinceH on Saturday 13th of December 2014 10:53:53 AM
-- Edited by VinceH on Saturday 13th of December 2014 10:55:44 AM
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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software
(I only came here looking for fellow apiarists...)
With Fox on this one - I have previously continued with a bank reconciliation for a company to find the open balances all of a sudden do not match, after investigation noticed a deleted transaction had previously been bank reconciled and deleted by the clients bookkeeper throwing the whole figures. On systems that let users delete without noting a line entry this must be very time consuming.
Whilst cost is a main reason I steer away from Sage onto online systems like quickfile I have no reason to fault the system and the coding etc., that sage has, in fact you can actually delete all but the default codes and make your own if that suits you better.
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Donna Curling - Complete Book-Keeping Ltd (CBKLtd) - 07939 101900
noticed a deleted transaction had previously been bank reconciled and deleted by the clients bookkeeper
Just for peoples info as I appreciate that its often spoken about how easy it is to delete entries with VT and some see that as an issue, however, VT wouldn't allow you to do the above. You would have to unreconcile the figures before deleting the transaction (similar sort of thing with VAT returns).
-- Edited by Shamus on Friday 19th of December 2014 11:16:52 AM
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
