Do you get paid the same amount every month, because if he is paying you by regular standing order then there may be small pence differences, although this should be made up by the year end, although my view is that he should move away from doing this and use a system that can pay flexible amounts eg BACS, manual transfer etc. if the amounts vary more than a few pence, then my view is this is a ridiculous excuse he has given,how does he decide how much he is paying you?

Firstly I would ask you employer when he is going to pay you any shortfall due, put it in an email so you have proof of chasing it. Your next steps depend on what type of relationship you have with your boss (as some people can easily just say exactly what they feel and not be afraid of any consequences by their employer, whilst others may feel that they may be given the push for complaining). So next I would check all your payslips/p60, from the start of your employment versus your Bank account, also talk to other employees to see if the same thing has happened to them (safety in numbers), then I would urgently speak to ACAS who can advise you what steps to take to protect your position. Document the dates times etc of all your conversations with your boss.

Hi Patrick,

Just some food for thought. A colleague or yourself might use the payslips and annual P60 certificate to complete tax returns or apply for benefits and tax credits. Unless your are paid the shortfalls from time to time, the payslips and P60 are incorrect yet have already been reported in 'Real Time' to HMRC.

It would be interesting to know if the bookkeeper is correcting the payroll after they've examined the employer bank statements. Otherwise, benefits and Tax Returns are likely to contain mis-declarations.

The employer wants to get on with making the business profitable for everyone's sake, but he could at least uprate your bank payments once a year, to cover his own back if nothing else.

Kind regards,
TIm

as much as the underpayments are important to me my main concern is that the documents that i have would stand up as proof of tax deduction even though the information does not match what I have received. would it be dismissed by HMRC

My above link did not work when I just tried it. I was trying to direct you to 2. at the end section 'Example Letters and Guides'.

Regards,
Tim

You're quite right; they're not proof and if asked to provide payslips etc, the Tax or Benefit office may pick up on the discrepancy.

It's how to tackle him really without appearing to be a rabble rouser. On top of Joannes comments, you yourself are best placed as to who to approach first, but the more of your colleagues on board, the better.

If a problem has already occurred then your employer may have more concern but he IS being quite slapdash by the sounds of it.

Let us know how you go on.
TIm

Patrick wrote:

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so if hmrc came to me saying that paye has not been paid on my behalf i could not use my payslips and p60 to prove that they have been deducted just because they are wrong? even if i explain the situation to them.

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It is the employers responsibility to operate PAYE and failure can result in all the back taxes, interest and penalties being sought from the employer.  The key phrase you use is "on my behalf".  That is what the employer is obliged, by law, to do.

So, HMRC should approach the employer first for what might be a minor discrepancy.

What you DO have proof of is that he is not payroll-ing the same amounts as he is paying.   The employer is at fault and you have done nothing wrong.  There is no chance of HMRC making you pay the shortfall providing you are well advised.

What scenario is worrying you so that we may give you more specific advice?

All the best,

Tim

 

You could ask HMRC for the Pay and Tax details for several years at once. Even this action will alert HMRC to the possibility that your employer is not providing you with an accurate P60, so be warned that you may be opening a can of worms.

The latest address I have for this is :
HMRC
PAYE Office
PO Box 1970
Liverpool
L75 1WX

If you provide the employer name, address and PAYE Ref from your P60 then they should provide you with the figures for each tax year EG 2012/13

This does not prove that the employer has paid the amounts over to HMRC but again, that is a matter between those two parties if deductions are shown on your payslips.

Consider letting sleeping dogs lie unless there is general annoyance amongst your colleagues and problems are being encountered in dealing with officialdom. IF you were to be billed for back taxes, then calmly and repeatedly claim Employer R72 Error, and consider contacting ACAS the LITRG or Taxaid if in difficulty.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/pommanual/paye90020.htm

Hi Sammy, PAYE might be being corrected after the event but Patrick isn't receiving a corrected P60.

Kind regards,
Tim

let me give you a scenario, i receive a bill from inland revenue saying i owe them x amount in tax. if i was to reply to them saying no i don't, i have payslips and a p60 showing the deductions being made and in actual fact my payslips have a higher value i have actually been paid. Would they accept that?

You have your bank statements and the error is not on your part. If you were receiving £3000 a month S.O. and the payslip was saying £900 every time then it could indicate you were party to tax fraud. Nevertheless, it is the employer's responsibility and the underpayment should be sought from them first.

Your contacting ACAS or the Revenue direct would signify your innocence as the whistle blower so keep any such correspondence and let us know how you go on.

Best wishes,

TIm

 

How much are we actually talking about?

Ok, might seem a small amount but still yours and actually quite a large sum over the year - £240 is equivalent to car tax payment and you would still have some money left for a few beers. So my questions are now - are you really not bothered about not getting that money? How approachable is your boss? Ive worked with a few that I could tell to FCUK orf and they wouldnt mind (not that I did!) but Ive also seen a few who find any excuse to put staff down. It may be that he is just very busy and hasnt given it much thought, even though you mentioned it, so you need to give him a reason to understand why it is important and upsetting you. Add it all up since you started and know what it is you are asking for. Then say - remember that conversation we had last week about the wages - its just that I worked it out that Im £xx pounds short so I wondered if there is something we can do to sort it out? Keep it all pleasant and see what he says. Have you actually got other staff working in the same place who you can ask (we have assumed you have)? if you do get them to check and approach him with someone else (dont all go mob handed but a couple of you). He might be ultra reasonable and be happy to sort it. It might be that he doesnt know what to do to get it sorted - most often the reason for the brush off!!

If you really feel that this is not an option then please speak to ACAS on a advice only basis over the phone (they will not take action without your say so), rather than HMRC (who will) and just check what options you have open to you. Then you can make more of an informed choice about the action do decide to make, or not.

Hi Patrick

 

Your payslips and bank payment should match so if they don't then I would ask your employer about it and make sure he sorts it. If the accountant does the payroll then how does the employer know how much to pay? Someone must authorise the bank payments so their should be some sort of system between the accountant who does the payroll and the employer. If you are not happy in the first instance I would talk to the employer or the accountant who does the payroll. Your employer shouldnt mind you sorting out any problems with the people who do the payroll. (depending on his relationship with them of course), I would certaintly try and sort it inhouse, before I took it any further as if it is a simple error, then you don't really want to cause an headacre for your employer. He should pay you anything he owes you so that everything is correct. If in doubt then see if you can check with the payroll provider. Mistakes can and do happen and if so your employer shouldnt mind putting it right. Hmrc will take what has been sent to them onRTI or corrected RTI as correct so you must make sure that your pay is the same as on your payslip and if not get it sorted sooner rather than later. Mistakes can be sorted at any time but if you are getting paid less than the payslips say then sort it. £20 is a lot of money and better in yhour pocket than your employers 

to answer your question how he knows how much to pay me is because i am on salary so it is the same amount every month, the reason it no longer matches is because the extra i should get from the tax free allowance for this year has not been updated.

my pay is now correct so i will raise it again in april to make sure the same thing does not happen again. On a side note does anyone know a contact number for me too check with hmrc that my address details are correct? I'm sure they are just want to be sure.