Autoenrolement software - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Georgie · Guru

Autoenrolement software

pinkdon · Veteran Member

Hi,

I would also be interested in any views or experiences for payroll packages with AE functions. At the moment we use 12pay which gives the option of purchasing the AE Add on (same price as the license). We have had no issues with 12pay but support hasn't been as strong since Iris took over and I'm tempted to change for the next tax year. I've also been looking at Brightpay which works out slightly cheaper but I haven't had the time to download and have a play about with it yet. Sage and Iris are both a no-go for us due to costs.

Thanks in advance.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi
Ive read somewhere that there a few payroll software companies who are not providing fully supporting AE versions and we may see a few disappear or require additional 3rd party provisions to cope with it all.

Im not surprised by the reduced support for 12Pay since Iris took over - I said this at the time I heard about it, via this very site. Im just surprised they didnt try to ramp up the costs quicker!!!

Am interested in any responses out there on this one too!

Helz · Senior Member

Hi

I use Brightpay for the majority of my personal payroll clients (one on 12pay, but will move them at year end), and have been very impressed with it. It's very clearly laid out, and I find it very intuitive, more so than 12pay. They also have a great training part, with lots of videos showing how to do the different bits - you often don't need the videos, as the written descriptions are excellent.

Brightpay are definitely supporting AE, but I haven't looked at that part yet - on the basis of the rest of their package I would expect it to be user friendly.

My first client to stage will happen 1 October, and that is through my workplace, where we use Sage payroll. Currently getting the updates from the pension regulator and have got the meeting with an IFA to get the pension sorted in a couple of weeks, and then need to seriously get to grips with the whole procedure.

It's feeling to me, at present, that a huge number of small payroll providers haven't actually realised how massive this may be for the payroll system, and could get a nasty surprise if they aren't "holding their clients hand" throughout the planning stage. I am aware that some of the pension providers (& there aren't many) will do the monthly assessments, letters to employees etc etc, but others won't - so if you haven't stayed on top of what's happening it could come as a big shock!

Helen

Georgie · Guru

Hi Joanne,

There is no way I will be using a payroll software provider unless they do not fully support AE. The "middleware" packages will be a nightmare as each month you run your payroll, send the info to the "middleware" they work out the pension contributions, assess etc then send the info back to you. You then re run the payroll to incorporate the AE data then upload the file to the pension regulator.

This is on top of chasing clients for hours, sickness, starters, leavers , etc....oh and RTI deadlines. Can you imagine the hassle and stress this will cause??

So, this is where I am at: I have 2 options

1. Dump my payroll clients (not a problem as I have always hated payroll) Or

2. Pay the extortionate fee the big software providers will charge , but will do it all - You could probably absorb this cost if you run a payroll bureau but not if you only have a small payroll client base.

So MONEYSOFT aren't you going to help me on this one? Happy to pay extra for assessment module???

Georgie

Hi Helen,

Just read your post after submitting mine. I will take a look at Bright pay

Georgien

-- Edited by Georgie on Thursday 19th of February 2015 10:00:31 AM

111 Bookkeeping and Payroll · Senior Member

I've not looked at auto enrolment yet and according to the planning site I have to begin planning 12 months prior, so I've got a year or so yet. (Earliest enrolment according to PR site is 1st May 2017)

Is it really the complicated minefield everyone suggests it is? I'm changing my business name and going Ltd from 1st March, so once all that's bedded down I'll begin delving into the murky world of pensions and auto enrolment -eek!

Georgie · Guru

Hi Helen,

Just had a quick look at Bright Pay and looks good. Can process CIS ? I couldn't find any mention of that on their website.

John, no I don't think it is as complicated as you think. Like RTI there is a lot of scaremongering but I haven't found it too difficult as of yet but will keep you posted. My first client stages in October too and we are ready to rumble!

Georgie

111 Bookkeeping and Payroll · Senior Member

Nice one Georgie. RTI I never had an issue with, and with moneysoft it's a breeze. Just been having a look at Brightpay, and I may well move over to that in August unless moneysoft improve their offering. It'll be a shame as I think moneysoft is brilliant. Brightpay offer a 60 day trial so I'll download that in June and run it alongside.

Brightpay don't do CIS, but from a thread I've just been reading on accountingweb, it's under consideration.

-- Edited by 111 Bookkeeping and Payroll on Thursday 19th of February 2015 01:00:38 PM

Georgie · Guru

Hi John,

I thought of doing that too. I couldn't find any mention of it performing the CIS though? I can't believe it wouldn't!

Georgie

Helz · Senior Member

Hi Georgie

I do my CIS manually on excel, so it's entirely possible that they don't - I've never looked biggrin

Which pension provider has your client gone with - it's looking like mine will probably go with the Peoples Pension, but will make final decision soon?

John - I think like most these things, as long as you are aware of what's going on and what needs to be done, you'll be fine. If, as the payroll provider, you are taking on the admin side of AE there may be a fair bit to do in the run up. My client that stages in October has about 45 staff, virtually all of whom will be eligible, so I know that means 45 (ish) letters out, then managing any opt-outs and, no doubt, the barrage of questions - most of which I won't be allowed to answer!! However, all the technical side of 'talking to' the pension provider, I assume will be done via the software bolt on.

I know with this first client, I will be asked to manage the entire process, which I'm looking forward to as a good way to have a good understanding of what it is all about! Hopefully then when all the others stage, it should be quite straight forward, lol!

Helen

-- Edited by Helz on Thursday 19th of February 2015 01:15:17 PM

Georgie · Guru

Hi Helen,

They have gone with NEST...basically because there is no cost to the Employer, easy to administer and it fits all! Its all been documented with the reason they choose that particular one for compliance etc.

As you are an employee with the company that's staging in October have they paid for any of the training involved or given you a pay rise?

Georgie

Helz · Senior Member

Hi Georgie

I'm not an employee at the company staging - I'm an employee at their accountants!

I will/have received pay for the couple of courses I've done/doing, and I will receive more pay for any additional work as my pay is linked to time sheets. So I will be paid for the IFA meeting etc.

What have you found with regard to training etc?

Helen

Georgie · Guru

Hi Helen

Absolutely zero! I too am an employee and also have my own client base. The Employer who is staging in October has paid for absolutely nothing. I have paid for all the CPD events, I pay my professional subscriptions and basically everything else, with the knowledge that I am up to speed and so can help and advise my clients. So this lucky, lucky employer is pigging back from my knowledge!

Georgie

Georgie · Guru

I have just read again what I had written and it looks far worse in black and white. No wonder I feel peeved with this employer. I feel like telling them to shove it I really do! I mean what the hell am I doing there?

Georgie.

Helz · Senior Member

I don't blame you for feeling fed up. I know I've been lucky, but my boss & I talked about it a little while ago and she concluded that it was a good investment to ensure that I was trained up on it, as we both feel that over the next couple of years as more and more companies stage, the opportunity to capitalise on having AE knowledge and experience would be great.

All I would say is that your investment should pay off in the same way. We are also developing a relationship with a local IFA, so that we can offer potential clients the full AE experience (so to speak), and bill it accordingly!

Whereabouts in the country are you?

Helen

shada · Member

Hi everyone

just thought I'd let you all know that before you jump ship and leave Moneysoft, they are supporting AE and in fact already have people using it. I was concerned when I read this as I have used Moneysoft for years, found it to be quite straight forward, quite inexpensive (compared with Sage & Iris) and a good all round package, so I emailed them and asked the direct question. They sent me a swift reply stating that they didn't know where it was coming from that they would not be supporting it but it was not true.

They even sent a whole load of information and some quick links

Can't say fairer than that really and I'll be sticking with them biggrin

Shada

Georgie · Guru

Oh well maybe I am mistaken and mis read what they say on their website, but I am reading it that they won't be assessing the workforce although you can extract personal details of employees, so I assume you then have to either assess each employee yourself on a monthly basis or buy an assessment software to do this for you? And then find the correct letter to send to the different types of employees you have assessed?

Georgie

Georgie · Guru

Hang on I stand corrected... Moneysoft DOES assess the workforce , it's just the communications module that it doesn't perform.

Sorry Moneysoft.

Georgie

Georgie · Guru

That's made my day....one less thing to worry about!

Georgie

TrevorD · Senior Member

Good Afternoon Georgie

As I see it - Moneysoft will provide the reports needed for the employer to get the ball rolling !!! However - they don't deal with the ongoing situation ie every payroll run, its down to the employer to assess and do the necessary !!! and employee comms is totally down to the employer.

Moneysoft do not blurr the boundary between the payroll (as a tool to pay people) and providing a statutory work place pension with all the comms (and associated responsibilities of the employer) I think what Moneysoft and some accountants are worried about, is the employer passing their responsibility over to them (and get sued) ie disgruntled employee goes to ACAS or money chasing solicitor - they ask were you asked to join a pension etc etc and it the employee wasn't or didnt get his refund after a pension payment sue or get fined !!!!!

Georgie · Guru

Hi Trevor,

That doesn't make sense: Why would the software assess the employees for the first month but not on an on going basis?? If it is written in to the program then I don't see any problem. Are you absolutely sure ?

As for the communications my payroll clients are very small so I don't envisage a problem with that part.

Re: Employees going after employers, not if done correctly and that means documenting the pension chosen in the minutes and it's up to the employee to opt out so getting any refund of pension contributions is down to them notifying the pensions regulator and then waiting to hear from them before you issue a refund. A bit like tax codes work. So don't think people will be running to a money chasing solicitor for a few pounds as they will get it back within 45 days anyway.

Georgie

TrevorD · Senior Member

Moneysoft have a report that will assess the workforce and Yes you can run it every pay run and forward to the employer.

shada · Member

Hi Georgie & Trevor

the way I see it is Moneysoft/Sage/Iris/Brightpay whoever, is going to do whatever it takes to enable you to run a payroll. They don't sell washing machines on the high street, they sell payroll packages and no doubt they want to stay in business so they have to adapt. So if you currently use a package and your happy with it, and want to stay with it,just ask the provider the question - Do you support AE completely???

regards

Shada

TrevorD · Senior Member

Shada - define completely ?

Georgie · Guru

Shada,

Do you use the Moneysoft auto enrolement module then for your clients as you said you were happy with it?

Georgie

TrevorD · Senior Member

Georgie - its a report not a module !

Georgie · Guru

OK Trevor calm down

Iris call them Modules, there's the communications module (which communicates with the employees) and there's the assessment module (which assess the workforce) They are an add on to the program and do it all belt and braces, whistles and bangs

A report is just a piece of paper with text on isn't it? So what does Moneysoft do exactly?

Georgie

Helz · Senior Member

I've never used Moneysoft, but have been having a look at their website. They have a section on AE which states quite clearly "It is important to understand that Payroll Manager has not been designed to be a fully comprehensive Auto Enrolment solution."

They make it clear that they do not offer any employee communication support, however it appears they can produce a report assessing the workforce, which can be downloaded as a csv file. I assume (depending on your pension provider) that you may be able to send this directly to them??

Helen

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

shada wrote:
Hi everyone
just thought I'd let you all know that before you jump ship and leave Moneysoft, they are supporting AE and in fact already have people using it. I was concerned when I read this as I have used Moneysoft for years, found it to be quite straight forward, quite inexpensive (compared with Sage & Iris) and a good all round package, so I emailed them and asked the direct question. They sent me a swift reply stating that they didn't know where it was coming from that they would not be supporting it but it was not true.
They even sent a whole load of information and some quick links
Can't say fairer than that really and I'll be sticking with them
Shada

Hi Shada

Ive clearly been mis-informed about Moneysoft too and certainly wouldnt want to move as I like the software and I use it for CIS. Can you please share the 'whole load of information and quick links' they sent you on here as that would be very useful (and extra thanks from me for emailing them!)

shada · Member

Hi Joanne

Yes, I use it for CIS too and find it a lot less confusing than Sage or Iris. I get the feeling on here that people expect their package to do everything for them, but I'm 'old school' from the days when doing the payroll meant getting Table A and Table B out and working it out yourself so I think anything that helps is great. Even on Sage, I used to save the pension report to a seperate folder and then Email it to the provider, These guys probably just need time to catch up.

From what I've seen there are reports on Moneysoft that you can email and it does seem to have an assessment tool for employees so I'm sure that most people will be able gain what they want from it. It might not be all singing all dancing and take you for lunch on a Friday but for the money - it does the job.

Anyway - rant over and the links are for a description of how Payroll Manager will help www.moneysoft.co.uk/support/payroll-software/guide-auto-enrolment-basics.htm and the other one is a guide on how to use the software for auto enrolment (specific to each pension provider) This one is for Nest - a lot seem to be opting for them as there no cost to the employer.
www.moneysoft.co.uk/support/payroll-software/guide-ae-nest.htm

this is the biggest thing that's happened in payroll for many a year and there are bound to be teething troubles but if we all try and help each other, I'm sure we'll get there.

Shada

TrevorD · Senior Member

Good Evening All

For information 12pay support for AE does (I suggest this is sort of what we are looking for !!) :-

Automatic Enrolment Module:
Hold staging date
Postponement functionality
Categorising the workers into the following: entitled worker/non-eligible jobholder/eligible jobholder
Identify the workers who need to be enrolled
Automatically enrol workers onto a nominated automatic enrolment scheme
Hold other pensions schemes
Opt out functionality
Calculate employee and worker pension contributions
Re-assess the workforce every payroll run
Production of the pension provider payment report
Assess the communications required
Publish the communications electronically
Delivers the required communications to your workers smartphone, tablet, laptop or desktop computer
Calculate employee and worker pension contributions

I have no interest in 12pay - Brightpay offer a superb solution but alas no CIS.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

shada wrote:
Hi Joanne

Yes, I use it for CIS too and find it a lot less confusing than Sage or Iris. I get the feeling on here that people expect their package to do everything for them, but I'm 'old school' from the days when doing the payroll meant getting Table A and Table B out and working it out yourself so I think anything that helps is great. Even on Sage, I used to save the pension report to a seperate folder and then Email it to the provider, These guys probably just need time to catch up.

From what I've seen there are reports on Moneysoft that you can email and it does seem to have an assessment tool for employees so I'm sure that most people will be able gain what they want from it. It might not be all singing all dancing and take you for lunch on a Friday but for the money - it does the job.

Anyway - rant over and the links are for a description of how Payroll Manager will help www.moneysoft.co.uk/support/payroll-software/guide-auto-enrolment-basics.htm and the other one is a guide on how to use the software for auto enrolment (specific to each pension provider) This one is for Nest - a lot seem to be opting for them as there no cost to the employer.
www.moneysoft.co.uk/support/payroll-software/guide-ae-nest.htm

this is the biggest thing that's happened in payroll for many a year and there are bound to be teething troubles but if we all try and help each other, I'm sure we'll get there.

Shada

Thank you - looks really useful, must have a proper read!

111 Bookkeeping and Payroll · Senior Member

From what I can see from the link Shada gave, Moneysoft will calculate the contributions, which is really all you can ask for from a payroll prospective. If software helps you with all the preparation stages then more to the good.

Like Georgie, my specialisation is micro businesses, so I can handle the admin side once i've genned up on it all. It's going to be a minefield for micro businesses from 2016-17 and I see this as an opportunity rather than a deterrent.

PyramidPoint · Member

I'm using moneysoft for my CIS clients and thinking to move for Kasflow for my other clients because they don't have CIS option.kasflow is easy to understand and integrated with auto enrolment too

RobH · Expert

My biggest payroll client has enrolled. I'm using Sage with the AE module which cost an additional £1400 I think. I passed this on to the client but at no additional margin. It works fine but I have to mess about with the csv files in order to upload on to the pension providers portal which can take hours if there are many amendments to make, I think we shouldn't underestimate the extra burden this is even for our small clients so thinking of pricing is key but clients know we are not adding any value to them just more compliance work.

On another note, I would like to know what constitutes advice. I was really looking to say to smaller clients that I can't give advice but if you are looking for a compliant only service then one of NEST, Now or People Pensions is worth looking at but if you want proper advice then you need to see an IFA. I am told by the IFA I use that that constitutes advice! Any thoughts?

Georgie · Guru

I think the IFA lot are seeing this as a massive money making machine and don't want us lot treading on their toes/patch. Don't know about anybody else but i've been inundated with emails from IFA's as I am the first port of call the client will talk to regarding pensions.

Now, I can tell you what I have done so far. I talked to the client, found out what is what they were looking for and presented them with 3 ideas, namely Nest, Now and The Peoples Pensions. I then said it was up to them as the owner of the business to make a decision or talk to an IFA.

I did not offer advice - only gave them the facts. They have made the decision who to go with. And really, what little company can afford the fees etc of the big pension providers? And would the big pension providers want the little guys anyway? I think not ....this isn't enough money to made from them.

Georgie

Georgie · Guru

And I would love some one to post on here that they are using Moneysoft for AE.....

AnnT · Newbie

Hi Georgie,

I am using Brightpay and it have successfully completed my AE with staging date of 1st April - it prepared all assessment and all my letters/communications.

I was very worried but the whole process was seamless.

Delighted!

AnnT

Georgie · Guru

Hi AnnT

Oh that's interesting! So if your staging date is 1st April did you do the AE after you did March payroll then? For some reason I thought if your staging date was the 1st of the month you wouldn't need to do anything until the end of that month ?

Georgie