Im in! In the words of a dreadful advert. Yes Ive signed the petition and added to my Facebook. I will also add to Linkedin and pass on to all my clients this week as all of them will be affected by this.

Come on people lets get those numbers up!

I think it might be worth putting on change.org as well - what do you reckon Frauke? For that medium it might be worth changing the heading to get more Co Directors engaged enough to read it given most wont know the implications..

Hi
This one is already on Change.org....www.change.org/p/david-cameron-mp-anna-soubry-mp-ask-the-government-to-reconsider-the-new-dividend-tax-for-small-businesses

Im wondering now if the two figures will be combined at the end of the day, although so far the numbers on 'change' on low.

After one day we're already well on our way towards twice the number on change.org.

I do wonder if anyone really takes any notice of that and in some ways it may end up dividing a vote rather than doubling it as if people vote once they are unlikely to do so again via a different portal.

Its a good idea as it does reach a lot of people but I think for this one Frauke is using the right approach.

Then again, whether this actually gets anywhere even if it gets to 10k votes is something else entirely. I remember signing a similar petition when Gordon Brown was in office to get accountancy protected as a term / profession in the same way as Doctors and Lawyers. We got well over 10k accountants signing only to be knocked back with a letter from number 10 saying that everything was fine as it is.

Conversely I feel that this campaign of Fraukes is sound. The Government is playing a game of Kerplunk with business owners and a game of Buckaroo with us in that they keep taking stuff off the people risking everything to build a business and at the same time loading more onto us that we cannot charge for (or cannot charge enough for).

Enough is enough. They've simultaneously pulled one straw too many and loaded one saddlebag too much and people need to make their voices heard.

I have just done the tax return of a client who will pay less tax with the new dividend tax change!

He works full-time and earns £60k a year. His dividend income from his investments are just under £3k a year. Currently he pays an additional £600 in tax. With the new allowance he will pay no tax at all!

So for "Tax planning purposes" - work for someone else on a really high salary, and have a small business on the side. Give all your family shares and everyone is given £5k a year in dividends, and then one has to pay any tax on the dividend!

Not really a way of encouraging enterprise! Hangers on maybe......

Can I thank everyone who has signed the petition on the UK government site?

It actually went Live on Monday afternoon, a couple of hours before Shaun added this post. Since then more than 100 people each day have signed it. If we can keep the momentum going, (at least 100 a day) we should pass the 10k mark in less than 3 months.

You have all done really well supporting this petition.

The petition passed 1,000 earlier today and it's only been 7 days sine it went live.

Passed 1500 earlier today. What has surprised me is the number of Accountants (see AccountancyWeb) who are happy with the additional tax on dividends, and think that it is about time small business owners paid more tax! Am I wrong in thinking, if I thought this way, I would not have many clients?

Additional I wonder if the "green eyed monster" has anything to do with it?

It's the snowball affect Shaun.  As more people sign the petition they tell others and away we go.  Could be at 100k by end of September

 

We passed 5k.

Just hit 9.5k

Way to go frauke and everyone else involved. Its really picking up day on day now isn't it. I believe that with a little luck you may well have your first 10k by end of play today Frauke.

I think a special mention here needs to go out to Joanne who got the Federation of Small Business (FSB) on board with this.

Congratulations on smashing through 10k Frauke. Its now sitting at just 40 short of 13k!!!!

I've not been on the UK business forum for many years. I don't think I know what my login is !

-- Edited by YLB-HO on Thursday 10th of September 2015 11:04:17 PM

lol Joanne, you would make a great campaign manager for someone.

Within a couple of paragraphs you have both mobilised the site and allotted responsibilities.

Why do I feel that we are only one stage removed from quota's!

I was getting the impression that most of the usual suspect from the ICB's forum have found their way back here and even people just thinking of joining the ICB ask here first (which is a good thing).

The attitude of some accountants does seem a little perturbing in that are we not supposed to work always in the best interests of our clients? I cannot see a scenario where paying more tax and NI (tax by any other name!) is in a clients best interest. Arguing that the changes sort out imbalances shows an almost HMRC type mentality of assuming secure constant income and ignoring the risk and sacrifice involved in getting to the stage of being able to pay dividends.

There is an old roman proverb (Tiberius) that a good Shepard should sheer his flock, not skin it. The system of 25.8% NI contributions plus tax combined with staged divestment of responsibility for spending that NI yield on pensions by introduction of AE (which will increase from initial levels) is skinning the flock which is why people opt to take dividends over higher salaries.

That dividends come from taxed company income, do not count towards pensions and are only used sparingly in mortgage application decisions does not by any means make them the perfect solution for business owners and the accountants making such rash judgements about their own clients needing to pay more in various taxes would do well to consider such.

 

 

 

 

Dividend tax petition ignores the real concern, is the heading of the article on AWeb and although there is a link to the petition, the narrative is not supportive. There are then a couple of comments with the second one being:

"flies in the face of risk and reward for running a business and contributing to the economy."

There is a real danger that this new tax, along with auto enrolment and minimum wages increases, will have a significant effect on those people brave enough to start up a business that could make a meaningful contribution to the economy and jobs market.



This is one of the most ridiculous statements made, sadly many people just take it for granted as being true.

We are all in the economy together sharing risks and rewards. When you work in employment you are taking a risk on your career, on your earnings, taking a gamble on the quality of your employer. The financial risk is just as great as for a business owner. On top of that, employees tend to be more honest with their tax responsibilities, earning money, paying the tax. As a chartered accountant in practise my major stress comes from clients and their tax, no matter how little they pay.

 

Not what I would call a rational argument against the petition or even factually correct as employees have the tax deducted at source with the responsibility taken away from them.

I wonder if this will get ripped to pieces in the usual AWeb style.

 

Gordon

 

 

Ive signed and sent the link!

17,000!! WOOP WOOP that's 1000 new signatures in 36 hours!

For to my last post, here is another one which includes all of the above: you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/stop-the-chancellor-s-budget-attack-on-small-business-and-entrepreneurship

This one is not done by me, but I will be signing it as well as promoting it too.

Hopefully, with all this there will be a backlash about how the government is treating micro (not SME, but micro) businesses.

By the way we are just short of 19k (18,938) and still waiting for a response from the government.

Blimey! Is the pointlessness that is paper.li still going?

What do you mean that's not what we're supposed to be taking from the link? ;)

We just got a response to the petition :



The Government has responded to the petition you signed Reconsider the new Dividend Tax for small businesses.

Government responded:

The Government is committed to supporting entrepreneurs and a fair tax system. Dividend tax reform allows further cuts in Corporation Tax and reduces the incentives for tax motivated incorporations.

The Government is fully committed to supporting business and entrepreneurship. As set out at the Summer Budget 2015, the Government believes that one of the best ways to support growth and enterprise in the UK is through lower and more competitive Corporation Tax rates.

Owners of small companies will also benefit from a range of other measures announced at the Summer Budget, including an increase in the National Insurance Employment Allowance to £3,000 from April 2016 and a permanent increase to the Annual Investment Allowance to £200,000 from January 2016. They will also pay less tax as a result of the increases to the tax-free Personal Allowance to £11,000 and to the Higher Rate Threshold to £43,000 in April 2016. We also have a commitment to go much further, taking the Personal Allowance to £12,500 and the Higher Rate Threshold to £50,000 by the end of this Parliament.

However, it is not possible to continue to reduce the Corporation Tax rate without looking at the overall balance of the tax system, including taxation of dividends. Lowering the Corporation Tax rate without action elsewhere increases incentives for individuals to set up a company and pay themselves through dividends to reduce their tax bill (also known as tax motivated incorporation). Therefore the Government is reforming dividend taxation. These reforms, which will also simplify the dividend tax system, will significantly reduce the incentives for people to set up a company and pay themselves through dividends rather than wages simply to reduce their tax bill. Taxpayers and the Exchequer will now be £500 million better off as result of reduced incentives for tax motivated incorporation. Those who choose to work through a company continue to pay lower rates of tax than the employed or self-employed. But the reforms move the overall tax rates for the self-employed and those incorporated closer together, making the system fairer overall.

HM Treasury

Click this link to view the response online:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/106525

The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

Quite Joanne, the response was very similar to when we attempted to get the term / profession of accountancy protected in statute. That was the Brown government and just got brushed off in a similar manner.

I'm really not seeing where they get the figure of £500m from. Is someone in Government forgetting that dividends are from taxed profits?... No dividends, then why show a profit to tax? My belief is that if they come out of this evens they will be lucky!