Oh my goodness... totally shocked!

Thank you for your swift reply and will wait BKN response tomorrow. Just for your records they are still appearing in the Hall of Fame.

Yes many in the ICB are sad. The person involved gave help to many members on here and other forums.  So many will feel let down and struggle to understand why they went down the wrong path. People become desperate but in this case expensive items where found above the essentials and peoples jobs were affected.

The AAT will hopefully make a statement on their own site as the accountant involved was a member if AAT as well as the ICB.

-- Edited by Tom Brennan on Tuesday 17th of November 2015 10:29:16 PM

Hi Tom,

quite. The Hall of Fame is not part of the site that I am able to amend (otherwise I would have won everything, every year, lol) and that really needs to be done in conjunction with the decision by the site / award owners over whether the prize stands (doubtful), the slot goes to empty for that year (the expected response) or the second place person is promoted to that spot (not seeing it as the person would always know they didn't really win that year).

As I say, it will be tomorrow before a decision is made and statement released



Hi John,

I think that the one word that sums up my feelings here is disappointment.

As a site, an organisation and a profession I feel that we have been badly let down by one of our own.

This is not someone new to this who snook past the ethics class on their way to a practice certificate but a long standing, experienced, qualified bookkeeper who is both ICB and AAT.

Hi Shamus

Do you know when the owners of the website will be releasing their statement?.

Thanks Tom

Hi Shamus

I do not want to say who I am mainly for the following reason. Yes I am a chicken. Probably the same reason as not many have commented on this story. So I have a lot of respect for you and your answers. As you say the person is now in prison but you do not know how she will react when she is out now that she has been outed.  One has to wonder as she attended the ICB submit without a care in world and nothing was happening. Perhaps she thought no one would notice she was missing for a few years. 

 

I can confirm that I am not injured party from the fraud.

However I am extremely close and a good collegue to someone who has won a award. Several people I know in the business are talking about this and have questioned the awards and the comments were not nice. That is upsetting for those genuine bookkeepers who won their award.
This is very unfair on the previous winners as no one saw this coming so I in no way blame BKN - ICB -AAT and she has fooled everyone and many close to her.

I believe your last comment at least clarifies how serious BKN have taken it and have gone a long way to damage control . At least putting the situation right which will protect BKN standing. This will reduce the damage caused. Hopefully if the person who the fraud was against will now know how utterly appalled we all are.  

So thank you for taking the time to answer and yes you did make me welcome on the site. However Prison is a tough place so you really do not know what someone will be like when they get out.

 

-- Edited by Tom Brennan on Friday 20th of November 2015 09:03:22 PM

I personally think Shaun and the site owners have handled things really well, and I am glad to see many people preferred not to comment. I am sure private conversations have been had, and John and Shaun have rightfully discussed the trust that we hold in our profession. I think to say any more than that could lead to idle gossip, and that would make me, for one, feel uncomfortable. None of us were at the trial, we only know what has been printed in the papers, and whilst it is truly shocking and totally unacceptable, its not for us to discuss, in any detail, on a public forum. That, to me, would be tacky and unprofessional. That said, Tom, I am glad you brought it to our attention. As the winner of the same award, just the year before, I am affected by the news, but as you say, this holds no bearing on BKN, the ICB or the AAT.

Tom Brennan wrote:

---

Hi Shamus

I do not want to say who I am mainly for the following reason. Yes I am a chicken. Probably the same reason as not many have commented on this story.  Sorry Tom but I am disagreeing with this comment.  I will state now for the record - I am not a chicken - what is there to be scared of? Absolutely nothing!  Especially if you having nothing to hide, then dont hide - which is why I am not hiding now and actually never was, but now feel the need to comment.    Frankly it does not matter how Sharon reacts when she gets out of prison, no matter how hard or easy prison is for her. What can she possibly do now that anybody has to fear.  So I have a lot of respect for you and your answers. The reason I chose not to comment earlier is probably the same reason most other people on here and indeed the ICB forum in that there really is nothing to add to what the courts have already said and the actions that have been taken/will be taken by BKN and her governing bodies.  Instead of making my feelings public, I had several private conversations with members of BKN about this case - and we all agreed that all that needed to be said was said by the courts, other than expressing our shock and of course disappointment. As you say the person is now in prison but you do not know how she will react when she is out now that she has been outed. Irrelvant as far as I am concerned.  One has to wonder as she attended the ICB submit without a care in world and nothing was happening. Perhaps she thought no one would notice she was missing for a few years. 

 

I can confirm that I am not injured party from the fraud.  

However I am extremely close and a good collegue to someone who has won a award. Several people I know in the business are talking about this and have questioned the awards and the comments were not nice. That is upsetting for those genuine bookkeepers who won their award.   I agree this is deeply shocking for all bookkeepers and their potential clients, indeed any law abiding citizen.
This is very unfair on the previous winners now this is, in part, what offends me for two reasons, as there has been a very clear inference to me that from the start of the message on day one you were trying to attach some blame  to BKN -  you say it is unfair yet you couldnt have put a bigger message out that than the title that you did in the subject bar.  There was no need for that.  You had several other options open to you - private messaging the owners/forum moderator and if you achieved no response you could have  then placed a message on the forum.  Indeed had you placed a message on the forum in the first instance I wouldnt object - I just find there was no need to try to sensationalise the issue by the very nature of the heading and your original message.  Especially as I cannot see that the same message has in such a public way to the providers of a more recent award to Sharon (one in 2015)!  Nor been mentioned on the AAT forum.  as no one saw this coming so I in no way blame BKN - ICB -AAT and she has fooled everyone and many close to her.    Glad that you now concur

I believe your last comment at least clarifies how serious BKN have taken it and have gone a long way to damage control . At least putting the situation right which will protect BKN standing. This will reduce the damage caused.  The second reason -  Whilst I understand that perception can be everything, I do think that most people would understand that such things are outside the control of such organisations as BKN and that other winners of the awards and indeed other professionals should not be tarred with the same brush.  Sharon provided a LOT of people on here with some valuable, very professional and legally sound advice over the years, whilst clearly then living a double life. In addition the public at large, whilst expecting to be able to fully trust members of such professions also know that unfortunately there are people in every walk of life who will break the law, or rules and that they cannot tar everyone with the same brush.  There are many examples in life of organisations, public and private  with stringent rules who have given awards and have had to revoke them due to a rogue element.  Some do it privately, some publicly. The internet is littered with the public ones and some are the highest awards in the land, some with much more rigorous checking procedures at award stage, yet still finding the need to revoke some, some examples - Victoria cross; OBE; CBE; Privy Council award; award winning surgeons being later struck off; policemen being stripped of awards, famous cyclists and many many more. Some of these are in a place of trust, some are elevated to a so called celebrity status by the very nature of their deceit.   Plus as Shaun says  - Andersons and Enron!   What we should take from ALL of these is for every one who breaks the law there are thousands if not tens of thousands out there who do not.

 Hopefully if the person who the fraud was against will now know how utterly appalled we (??) all are.     

So thank you for taking the time to answer and yes you did make me welcome on the site. However Prison is a tough place so you really do not know what someone will be like when they get out(irrelevant)

 

-- Edited by Tom Brennan on Friday 20th of November 2015 09:03:22 PM

---

 I agree with Michelle in that Shaun and the site owners have handled this very well, with Shaun reacting within a couple of hours after first hearing about the case via a third party.

I for one am glad that the news is out in the public domain and will hopefully serve as a message that whilst you absolutely should be able to trust in members of our profession and absolutely can in the majority, people should always exercise an element of caution and put procedures into place so that these things cannot happen - be it by their trusted advisors, a fellow director or a member of staff.  In my previous career in Banking I saw too many fraud cases perpetrated, to know that such controls are an absolute MUST.   I even cautioned one of my own clients recently who tried to provide me with their Bank logins a few weeks ago - not that I cant be trusted, but they didnt know that as it was my very first meeting of them(!!!) and there are better ways to do things (if a Bank login is a must then providing someone with their own which provides an audit trail, plus dual authorisations etc can be put in place which will prove someone is above reproach).      (Ive added this merely to give others out there food for thought in this areas - to both protect your client and yourself from any wrongful accusations!!)  

I for one hope this company and its owner recovers from such an ordeal and quickly so that the impact, especially in terms of staff jobs etc, can be minimised.

Just in case it is not clear form my message - I am deeply shocked and appalled by the news  but am very proud to say that there are many many more people who retain their honesty and integrity throughout their whole working and personal lives.

 

-- Edited by Cheshire on Saturday 21st of November 2015 12:00:49 PM    For typos!!!!!!!!!

-- Edited by Cheshire on Saturday 21st of November 2015 12:02:55 PM

Oh dear, I knew that this subject matter would be devisive.

Lets keep this civil and professional people and show the world the high level of control and decorum that financial professionals have in the face of this challenging situation where one of out own has brought shame on the profession.

How the world see's the way that we react to this shows how urgent situations are handled in a professional manner that must reinstill confidence in peoples / clients / businesses view of us.

Lets remember that when the thread was posted Tom did not realise that the situation was already being controlled. He / She (?) may have assumed that either (a) it was known about and being ignored, or (b) was being the one to inform the site that the awards were compromised.

I do think that Joanne has a point that the title of the thread may come accross somewhat confrontational but non of that has been evident in the content of the thread which I feel has been kept to a high professional standard. As such I am going to change the original title thread to something with a little less shock value (I hope that you have no objection to that Tom).

Tom was right, I did promise a site response and one was not posted so I can see completely why he requested an update and have no issue with that.

I must admit that I had been torn whether to let the thread die or post an update as to the sites position so Tom's post made that decision for me which I have no problem with.

I understand completely your anger at this Joanne as you only recently won one of the most prestigous of the awards in this business, I know how rightfully proud you are of your tremendous achievement and the thought of someone in anyway devaluing that would make a saint angry.

All that I can say is that this award has in no way been devalued. The examples that you give about other awards that have been rescinded but still carry the same respect as previous for all other holders of them is a good one (even better than my Enron example).

The overriding message here is that what has occured cannot be pinned on any lax controls by the ICB, AAT, BKN or BKPR, non of whom realised that their actions had been compromised by fraud.

Discussions at BKN towers did expand to how can this be prevented from ever happening again. Of course, it can't. We try our best, we do our searches but short of the purchase of thumb screws, hot irons and a ducking stool for pre award interviews there can be no guarantee's that errors will not occur.

What sets professional organisations apart though is how those errors of judgement are handled once they come to light.

In this instance I feel that everything that can be done by all organistions touched by this tragic fall of one of our own has been handled professionally without malice or vindictiveness.

Lets not now spoil that with infighting amongst ourselves but rather accept that the issue from BKN's perspective is closed.

Now I'm just going to change the thread title as it appears in the post list.

kindest regards,

Shaun.