Still looking at various accounting options for my new business, was looking at VT Transaction + but my accountant replied "I have only heard bad reviews for VT. It seems easy to use but does not really lend itself well for interrogation and review. I would still recommend Sage Instant"
I refuse to use Sage, hate the support and i had a lot of issues in the past with it crashing.
My accountant did tentatively suggest Quickbooks which i have no experience of but it does have stock control which the VT Transaction + does not, which would be very useful for me, i'm not ruling out VT but before i decide to move accountants (i have a long history with this accountant practice going back to 1994) and although they are bias towards Sage i am not quite prepared to ditch what has been a very good business relationship just yet.
I can't find any recent views on Quickbook Pro however, most of the reviews on here concerning it seem to be a few years old, although i did see a post I think that Shaun wrote saying that Quickbooks are moving towards going Cloud, but isn't that true of Sage and Solar Accounts and others, so is the current Quickbooks Pro desktop version still a viable option?
Your accountant is wrong. Drill down is incredibly easy with VT. Within seconds I can find the root of any field in the accounts. Have a look on Aweb and try to find anything bad said about it.
It sounds as though your accountant likes Sage (nothing wrong with that) and doesn't want you using software that they do not use themselves.
There is a lack of built in stock control as its an accounting package meant really for accountants rather than a product aimed at end users so much. I would agree with the accountant from that angle (just not on the "I've only heard bad reviews" line as its a really well thought out package).
On the quickbooks front Pro would be fine. I don't use it myself (although I do have it, just when I tried it I didn't like it compared to VT).
People such as Amanda use Quickbooks a lot and swear by it.
A few years ago Intuit really made a push for the UK market and it looked as though they were set to take a bg chunk... Then they just seemed to lose interest in the desktop software and started pushing only the online software that many people don't want so the move towards quickbooks seemed to implode.
I'm sure that someone in power at Intuit had the brilliant idea that if they only offer online then people would have no choice but to use it. What they missed was that there is still plenty of desktop alternatives from other providers out there and one way or another the market will buy what it wants, not just what software providers want to sell it.
Sage have stated that they will always provide a desktop solution... However, I believe that their desktop model has changed so that you need to buy their software every year. Previously people would buy a version, keep it for a few years until it was worth upgrading and then move to a new version.
As an alternative to QB, have you considered Sage Instant rather than Sage 50 as the cost is a lot more reasonable and it sounds as though it being a Sage product would stay within your accountants comfort zone. You would need someone elses input for the difference between the current versions of Sage Instant and Sage 50.
HTH,
Shaun.
p.s. can't believe that I just recommended Sage! I must be mellowing... But not enough yet to unban all of their product from my practice due to their client tax approach to licensing.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Hi
Im surprised your Accountant has said that about VT - Ive heard nothing but good stuff about it from a variety of people and from what Ive heard it lends itself more to interrogation than most. Shaun always says that Sage users are the ones who find it the hardest to use though so that could be why he/she doesnt like it.
I am a sage user, have never used the support - you dont need it with the number of sage bods on here to be honest. Also - Ive never heard of it crashing.....oh apart from the 2003 version of one of my newest clients that is clearly ancient, has hundreds of thousands of entries still showing as its never been archived and is on a PC that has business vista - so two slow lots of software on one PC and with the other issues is asking for trouble. Oh and the ONLY other sage that crashes is sageone - whenever the internet does - wouldnt recommend that one at all.
Do remember - your accountant is probably on a commission/kick-back or whatever you want to call it for flogging you the sage, but I suspect they are pushing it more so because they dont want to learn new software/scared of the unknown. That said they really do not need to worry - as long as you supply the correct reports from whatever software you have then he/she can do their job at year end.
You are quite correct that Sage and quick books are pushing their online versions - why would they not when they can get a monthly fee then hold your data to ransom if you dare to leave. Also its worth noting that both of them are trying to move away from the perpetual licence idea so they can, yet again, charge you monthly for use of their licences. There are, however, channels where you can still by both on perpetual licence....legally, I mean. Sage is easier to find, quickbooks less so from what Ive seen from comments on here, but is available if you dig around enough on Amazon.
There are Dummies book for both, plus both have good help files and Sage (only cos I know that one better) has a practice data and demo data option so its easy to do a lot of learning yourself. As with many of my posts to people on here before I say with both of those - the best way to learn (once youve made your mind up which one) is to just go and try to do something in it....take a back up first, try a scenario and then dig around to see what has changed (your basic double entry knowledge will give you a steer to know where to start looking!). You can always restore if you get stuck. Or obviously come on here - there are a few quickbooks bods.....not as many as sage it appears from my being on here, but even less around as you have picked probably the worst time of year to ask.
My question would have to be - do you REALLY need it for stock control? Or can you not do this via a manual method with timely stock updates into the accounts?
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I agree with you about Sage 50 - I would suggest it would be too expensive for a new venture such as described, which is why the Accountant presumably suggested instant.
Ive just fallen off my chair in shock at you recommending sage. Dont know about you mellowing - sounds like you are drunk!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I wish! Might actually open a bottle of wine tonight to celebrate finally completing a particularly problematic clients books.
I was in shock initially at this thread when I read that an accountant had slated VT... I think that we hit the nail on the head in that the accoutant wants to push the software that they are most comfortable with. I don't imagine for one moment that they have actually tried it themselves as it is just soooo easy to use and I would say that interogation and review are some of its strongest features so a bit random that they were singled out as issues.
Well, suppose that you can't please all of the people all of the time...
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I wish! Might actually open a bottle of wine tonight to celebrate finally completing a particularly problematic clients books.
I was in shock initially at this thread when I read that an accountant had slated VT... I think that we hit the nail on the head in that the accoutant wants to push the software that they are most comfortable with. I don't imagine for one moment that they have actually tried it themselves as it is just soooo easy to use and I would say that interogation and review are some of its strongest features so a bit random that they were singled out as issues.
Well, suppose that you can't please all of the people all of the time...
I reckon I might get royally pished tonight. Nightmare day, with amongst other things - ended up almost battering to death a rental agency trying to withhold number one son's flat deposit by trying to stiff him with a bill for 'cleaning it more thoroughly'. Cheek - its was left cleaner than when he got it and the stupid moron owner is selling it anyway. Never mind only giving him about a week's notice to move out and all the stress that caused. They thought their bullying threat of 'if you dispute this, it will take months to be resolved through the Deposit Protection peeps'. Ive been spoiling for a fight with someone for a while now........'I think youve taken on the wrong person with this one folks!' ........lets just say they backed down in the end. Utter pillocks!!!!!!!!!
Go on - open that bottle. Or three! Well done on the completion!
lol on the VT!!
You cant please some of the people any of the time!
-- Edited by Cheshire on Friday 22nd of January 2016 08:31:30 PM
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
To clarify i have experience with both Sage Line 50 (10 years, 1994 - 2004) and Sage Instant (2 years 2005 - 2007) it was my choice to use them, at the time i thought they were the best on the market, however I was let down on numerous occasions by Sage support not being helpful and taking ages to answer phone calls etc. I vowed never to use Sage again after the last time and after hours pouring over the internet looking at various threads and reviews it would seem i am not alone in my views. I too have read that they have introduced a renewal fee on desktop, although still not sure how true that bit is.
Personally i like VT Transaction, although it does not have stock control and I will be holding approx. £40K of stock, and to manually account for this although do able, I would prefer a computerised system.
If i wasn't doing a "dry January" i would be joining you in a bottle or so of wine tonight, dam why did i ever start...................
I have a few weeks left yet to decide, although looks like i missed the cheap offers on Quickbooks on Amazon earlier this week, Pro was £59 now back up to £114.90.
My background by the way is 20 years owning retail shops, last 2 as a sub-postmaster, now if your thought Sage was bad, the Post Office Horizon system was a nightmare (sub-postmasters ended up in prison or worse) o.k i know not strictly an accounts package but doing a weekly balance was torture.
Did an H.N.D in Business and Finance back in 1991 and initially started my first job doing Certified but then changed jobs and new company wanted me to do CIMA however an opening appeared in family business looking after the accounts so never qualified, wish i had now! Got out of retail in 2006 to retrain as a mortgage adviser, gained full CeMAP 1,2 & 3 and set up my own practice only for the recession to hit 12 months later. Last 5 years have ran a very small business as a sole trader, low o/h's and very few transactions and i used d.i.y accounting solutions, a spreadsheet based and very simple to use but not practical for my new venture. Not wanting to use Sage this time around i'm exploring other options. I might be a bit rusty on using a proper bookkeeping package but i'm sure i will get back into the swing of things pretty quickly but i'm about 10 years out of date on the software front as things have moved on considerably since my last experience of Sage.
-- Edited by newleaf on Friday 22nd of January 2016 11:05:17 PM
To clarify i have experience with both Sage Line 50 (10 years, 1994 - 2004) and Sage Instant (2 years 2005 - 2007) it was my choice to use them, at the time i thought they were the best on the market, however I was let down on numerous occasions by Sage support not being helpful and taking ages to answer phone calls etc. I vowed never to use Sage again after the last time and after hours pouring over the internet looking at various threads and reviews it would seem i am not alone in my views. I too have read that they have introduced a renewal fee on desktop, although still not sure how true that bit is. Oh you were well into dodgy sage territory as far as Im concerned and from the older ones Ive used. Think you only got a fully stable one at the 200 level in those days. It is absolutely true about the renewal fee on desktop - if you try to ring sage themselves they will not sell it otherwise, even to new Accountants club members and indeed I know of someone on here who had trouble this year with their existing Accountants club. But - like I said, there are people in the know (legitmate) who can still get it. Ive just got one recently - Im on the Pro version, which would probably be too expensive for your needs. Anyway - not worth saying much more about sage as obviously you wont be 'converted'.
Personally i like VT Transaction, although it does not have stock control and I will be holding approx. £40K of stock, and to manually account for this although do able, I would prefer a computerised system. Given your worry about stock, the other option of course is to get a separate stock option, with one that can produce outputs that can be input into whatever accounting software you wish. Not ideal, but do-able. Ive got a client who manages three times your stock level without it being done directly through the accounting software, although to be fair he probably isnt carrying as many lines as you would be with your type of business. Oh and one that note - I saw an earlier post form you when I was up to my eyes in it, and still no time to find it now, but you mentioned going sole trader then perhaps Limited in 12 months. I would suggest you get some advice on that score now rather than change part way through, would probably save you lots in the long run
If i wasn't doing a "dry January" i would be joining you in a bottle or so of wine tonight, dam why did i ever start...................oh go on go on go on! Unless you are raising money for charity! Cant do dry January in this job!
I have a few weeks left yet to decide, although looks like i missed the cheap offers on Quickbooks on Amazon earlier this week, Pro was £59 now back up to £114.90. oops. It may happen again. Still £115 is blinkin cheap!
My background by the way is 20 years owning retail shops, last 2 as a sub-postmaster, now if your thought Sage was bad, the Post Office Horizon system was a nightmare (sub-postmasters ended up in prison or worse) o.k i know not strictly an accounts package but doing a weekly balance was torture.
Did an H.N.D in Business and Finance back in 1991 and initially started my first job doing Certified but then changed jobs and new company wanted me to do CIMA however an opening appeared in family business looking after the accounts so never qualified, wish i had now! Got out of retail in 2006 to retrain as a mortgage adviser, gained full CeMAP 1,2 & 3 and set up my own practice only for the recession to hit 12 months later. Whereabouts are you based?I have a buddy who is an independent financial advisor but he seems to just get busier, although he is a bit of a terrier! Or maybe its just where we are (up 'norf' in leafy Cheshire/near enough to Manckyland!) Last 5 years have ran a very small business as a sole trader, low o/h's and very few transactions and i used d.i.y accounting solutions, a spreadsheet based and very simple to use but not practical for my new venture. Not wanting to use Sage this time around i'm exploring other options. I might be a bit rusty on using a proper bookkeeping package but i'm sure i will get back into the swing of things pretty quickly but i'm about 10 years out of date on the software front as things have moved on considerably since my last experience of Sage.
good luck with the business. I like gift shops - might have to pay you a visit once you are up and running if you arnet too far away
-- Edited by newleaf on Friday 22nd of January 2016 11:05:17 PM
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Joanne - do you know what stock control software they have? I have found one stand alone one Right Control which starts for around £5 per month, so not ruled out going VT route yet, going to have a chat with accountant next week about it. I might well only use an accountant for first year or so and do all of my accounts myself later on.
I see Sage also do Sage Instant direct for £10 a month plus £10 a month support now as well.
I'm thinking i might go down the QuickBooks route with the Pro version but going to keep looking and will make a final decision in the next 14 days as which ever one i go for I want to allow a couple of weeks to familiarise with the package. If i brought 2015 or 2016 edition, it would hopefully do me for two or three years and I can always opt to change to another package down the line at year end. That's really strange I've just seen an advert for QuickBooks on T.V. never seen an advert for any accounting package before on the telly, must be fate giving me a sign!!
I did look into going Ltd and the current owner runs it as a Ltd but he is the only director where as I will be able to put my wife through PAYE so reduce profit, (she will actually be working in the shop), the main issue that i did not go Ltd straight away is because it will be more difficult to assign the lease for a Ltd company, the landlord wanted me to jump through hoops as it is, he's an accountant by the way!! It will be easier to change down the line, when i'm actually a tenant, as it will be very hard for landlord to prevent me converting to Ltd then, although it won't affect my standing with him as i need to give personal guarantee on the lease, main reason for me for going Ltd would be for tax reasons.
Still doing a Dry Jan, now i've come so far there is no way i'm giving up so close to the end, I can be very determined when i want to be! Its the longest i've not had a drink since i was 16.....
I'm based on the Warwickshire / Oxfordshire border, financial advisers were not hit so hard during the recession as they still had products etc that people needed, where as mortgages were very difficult to obtain especially for self-employed or those with poor credit history, in fact near impossible for both. I didn't help in that i was a very new practice with no client bank, those who were established with 200 or 300 on their books were in a much better position to whether the storm. I wouldn't want to do it now, there was enough red tape and regulation when i did it, its even worse now with 3 hour client interview, most of my clients wanted to see me in the evening and i did not get home till 9pm, which was not easy with two very young children.
Not revealing exactly where shop is, its not officially gone through yet but its in one of the major Cotswold tourist towns close to me.
-- Edited by newleaf on Saturday 23rd of January 2016 08:06:22 PM
Joanne - do you know what stock control software they have? In my clients case it was one that was designed for them. I have found one stand alone one Right Control which starts for around £5 per month, so not ruled out going VT route yet, going to have a chat with accountant next week about it. I might well only use an accountant for first year or so and do all of my accounts myself later on.
I see Sage also do Sage Instant direct for £10 a month plus £10 a month support now as well. yes they do, but there are still plenty of places you can get the perpetual version (I found a reputable place with software for sale in a couple of clicks) - its dearer than quickbooks though generally.
I'm thinking i might go down the QuickBooks route with the Pro version but going to keep looking and will make a final decision in the next 14 days as which ever one i go for I want to allow a couple of weeks to familiarise with the package. If i brought 2015 or 2016 edition, it would hopefully do me for two or three years and I can always opt to change to another package down the line at year end. That's really strange I've just seen an advert for QuickBooks on T.V. never seen an advert for any accounting package before on the telly, must be fate giving me a sign!!
I did look into going Ltd and the current owner runs it as a Ltd but he is the only director where as I will be able to put my wife through PAYE so reduce profit, (she will actually be working in the shop), the main issue that i did not go Ltd straight away is because it will be more difficult to assign the lease for a Ltd company, the landlord wanted me to jump through hoops as it is, he's an accountant by the way!! Dont let that stop you from getting the right advise for YOU now, so that it wont cost you further down the line. The lease is just one aspect and will be with you personally whether you are limited or not, so just negotiate it that way - thats generally the way these days for startups/no track record businesses. It will be easier to change down the line, when i'm actually a tenant, as it will be very hard for landlord to prevent me converting to Ltd then, although it won't affect my standing with him as i need to give personal guarantee on the lease, main reason for me for going Ltd would be for tax reasons. tax reasons becoming less attractive these days with all the divi changes. But should you not be considering the limiting liability (subject to the usual caveats of course)? As you have an Accountant already I would use his services
Still doing a Dry Jan, now i've come so far there is no way i'm giving up so close to the end, I can be very determined when i want to be! Its the longest i've not had a drink since i was 16.....
I'm based on the Warwickshire / Oxfordshire border, financial advisers were not hit so hard during the recession as they still had products etc that people needed, where as mortgages were very difficult to obtain especially for self-employed or those with poor credit history, in fact near impossible for both. I didn't help in that i was a very new practice with no client bank, those who were established with 200 or 300 on their books were in a much better position to whether the storm. I wouldn't want to do it now, there was enough red tape and regulation when i did it, its even worse now with 3 hour client interview, most of my clients wanted to see me in the evening and i did not get home till 9pm, which was not easy with two very young children.
Not revealing exactly where shop is, its not officially gone through yet but its in one of the major Cotswold tourist towns close to me. Fair enough. Do tell when you can.....if its in the right direction I can pop for a look when I on my way down to sunny Bath.
-- Edited by newleaf on Saturday 23rd of January 2016 08:06:22 PM
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
