which online software - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Sammy76 · Senior Member

which online software

Princess · Senior Member

Why don't you use QB online then they will convert your existing records to the Online version for free I think.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Sammy
How about keeping the invoicing separate and then using QB desktop new version if you are upgrading anyway (which you may not wish to of course!), but licence cheaper in long run and keying for you would be quicker than using online version Im sure.

Just a thought!

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Sorry - not what you asked but I cant recommend one as Im not impressed by any so far.

Sammy76 · Senior Member

I could do. I will have a chat with the guy. He wants me to do the quotes but he do the invoices, however it might work with me just being able to convert the quote to the invoice and send direct to the client for him. I do need to upgrade QB though as the version I have doesn't allow for Flat Rate VAT.

Would still like some more feedback on the other options though....

abacus12345 · Guru

Not a user - however, notable, popular names are-

Xero
Clearbooks
Freeagent.

They seem to offer what you seek.

HTH

MarkS · Expert

Xero would do what you need. Thats the online accounts package we use but sure some of the others such as Kashflow, QBO, SAGEone, Freeagent, Clearbooks would also do the same but cant comment as dont use them.

Meadowlands · Senior Member

any of the previously mentioned packages would do what you need. If CIS is involved then Clearbooks can do the verifications and returns etc so might be worth considering. I'm just starting to use it with a client but so far its ok.

Sammy76 · Senior Member

CIS is taken from his invoices. He doesn't subcontract out so no real need to do returns. I will look into clearbooks and xero. I've used Kashflow before but really didn't like it - found it time consuming due to lack of shortcut keys, although I may look to see if anything has changed on it.

abacus12345 · Guru

I believe all the main players offer a free trail. Probably best to download a few, and have a play.

abacus12345 · Guru

Trial even. Doh

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Sammy76 wrote:
CIS is taken from his invoices. He doesn't subcontract out so no real need to do returns. I will look into clearbooks and xero. I've used Kashflow before but really didn't like it - found it time consuming due to lack of shortcut keys, although I may look to see if anything has changed on it.

Same reason I dont like Sage online Plus eg lots of entries cannot be bulk keyed, oh and if you try to be too quick the darned thing cant keep up. Key a customer name in and click tab before its finished pondering and up pops another one. Plus sometimes if you key a nominal code number rather than a name, it wont populate the field - says it doesnt exist when its right there in front of you. Definately not designed for quick nor bulk keying.

YLB-HO · Guru

I going to throw one in - and its FREE

waveapps.

A client started to use it, and sent me a collaborator request. Since then I have added other clients to my single login. I imported (by CSV, although it does import direct from your bank - but thats one step too far for me security wise) and entire years bank statements and it took me 3 hours to allocate all the individual transactions on the first attempt from scratch.

It also has a phone app to photo receipts and send to the main accounts. This is what convinced a few clients to use it - no more lost receipts. It accepts payments against the invoices too. Oh and of course ITS FREE.

The software company is based in the US, but I think the directors are from the UK. (or was that another company I was looking at? ) They make their money by advertising, and payroll services for US and Canadian clients. It has a lot of extras we just don't get in the UK like a separate personal account or the facility to put investments on it, like buying and selling shares.

-- Edited by YLB-HO on Friday 1st of April 2016 02:27:12 PM

Leger · Master Book-keeper

I am hearing positive things about wave as well, although it doesn't handle VAT as far as I'm aware.

samsing · Newbie

You can use Nomismasolution, Online accounting software program to manage Bookkeeping, Payroll and many other accounting services in a single software. Try it, Its really helpful and anyone who have few more knowledge about accounting can use this software.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

samsing wrote:
You can use Nomismasolution, Online accounting software program to manage Bookkeeping, Payroll and many other accounting services in a single software. Try it, Its really helpful and anyone who have few more knowledge about accounting can use this software.

Hi Sam,

Are you a sales person / employee / owner / director / etc. of this company?

Would you like to introduce yourself to the forum?

Be warned before posting though that the site is littered with the corpses of those pushing cloud based solutions.

VinceH · Expert

I searched it out.

The first thing I noted was that the six panels on the home page that look like they should be links - the background colour changes as you point to them, as does the mouse pointer, which strongly hints at them being links - in fact aren't. They do nothing.

(Disclosure: I routinely block Javascript, but will temporarily whitelist things in the interests of testing - as I did here.)

It seems that to see the features, you need to click on the menu icon top-right, then features, then on the relevant topic.

In all cases, the features list then appears in a pop up panel which takes up less than half the vertical space of my display, and may have to be scrolled.

I should add, though, that this is less a criticism of that specific website, but a more generic one: I think it's endemic to web design as a whole at the moment; it's common for websites to adopt a 'one size fits all' approach where the site works well on a small screen device, but is a PITA when using a full size display with a mouse and keyboard. However, adjusting my browser window size, I can see the site is adopting a responsive design - but not when it comes to those features panels.

Clicking on videos doesn't present a good picture - because for the videos I tried to play, I got "This video is no longer available because the uploader has closed their YouTube account."

So with no videos, what about screen grabs? Nope. Can't see any.

So even if I was considering a cloudy solution for anything - which I'm not - then the website for Nomisma Solution wouldn't encourage me to give it a try.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
I searched it out.

The first thing I noted was that the six panels on the home page that look like they should be links - the background colour changes as you point to them, as does the mouse pointer, which strongly hints at them being links - in fact aren't. They do nothing.

They are links Vince, to the panel in the middle. Clicking on each link changes the panel to show a screenshot related to it. If you shrink the screen down to phone size you lose the middle panel, and then the links don't do anything lol. So yes, responsive it is, but way too much scrolling on a phone. I would prefer to read this particular website on a full size screen.

Ooops a major website fu with the youtube links, so totally agree with you there.

A little more digging reveals that this is the brainchild of a firm of chartered accountants in London, who also operate a franchise. At £20 + VAT a month all in it's competitively priced but with the ability to submit your corp/self assessment online its likely to remove the need for an accountant to those unsavvy enough to think they don't need one. Boy oh boy, this will be fun in 2-3 years time. Do Xero and Kashflow have online filing available yet?

VinceH · Expert

What panel in the middle?

* visits site again, fails to see the panel.

You say it disappears "If you shrink the screen down to phone size" so I'll increase my window size... and lo! there's the panel.

I usually run my browser on the left half of my display - so the browser window, including furniture, is 960x1080. It seems the size I need to get that panel is a little over half the display. Clearly when I had a quick look earlier, after resizing my window a couple of times on the other pages, I didn't go back to that one!

As an aside, I'd still call that a design flaw, unless clicking those buttons achieves something on phones, such as popping up the resulting image over the top of the static page content: In which case, it should also do the same on a desktop system, instead of appear to do nowt. (As I pointed out, going to the features page popped up a panel listing the basic features).

However, I'm still only seeing a grey panel - clicking the links is achieving nothing.

Investigating further, the 'images' that are loaded when you click those links are all .swf files. Shockwave Flash.

Screenshots I'll never see, then: Flash is a security sieve - i.e. it's full of holes - which I won't have on my systems.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
However, I'm still only seeing a grey panel - clicking the links is achieving nothing.

Investigating further, the 'images' that are loaded when you click those links are all .swf files. Shockwave Flash.

Screenshots I'll never see, then: Flash is a security sieve - i.e. it's full of holes - which I won't have on my systems.

I didn't realise they were .swf files, but I can't for the life of me understand why. All that happens is the windows scrolls about a centimetre. A jpg screenshot would have done just as fine. In fact I didn't even realise I had flash running, so I'll get that sorted.

Definitely agree with you on the panel, if you can't see it at 960 x1080. I would expect to be able to see it on a 10" tablet, and like you say, clicking on one of the links by phone would expect it to at least take me to a page with a description for that link.

Sammy76 · Senior Member

Thanks everyone for your input. I have another client who is using yet another web based programme called Quickfile. It's quite easy to use and does the job for this particular client, though I haven't worked out the shortcut keys, if there are any, which means its a bit time consuming. Still it works for them, but pretty certain it won't work for my other client. I'm going to have a look at Xero as most of the accountants in our area seem to be pushing for clients to move onto it.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Hi Sammy

I looked at Quickfile last year for a particular client. It looked ok although I didn't look into it in too much detail as the client never bothered in the end. It has a good support forum.

I personally wouldn't entertain Xero. Don't get me wrong, it looks a good piece of kit and they are the market leader, but 1) theres a price increase imminent, and 2) having seen some of the responses to peeps on aweb from the founder, I don't care much for his attitude.

Software I've seen recommended are Clearbooks and Accounts Portal, although I've never used them myself.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Shamus wrote:
samsing wrote:
You can use Nomismasolution, Online accounting software program to manage Bookkeeping, Payroll and many other accounting services in a single software. Try it, Its really helpful and anyone who have few more knowledge about accounting can use this software.
Hi Sam,
Are you a sales person / employee / owner / director / etc. of this company?
Would you like to introduce yourself to the forum?
Be warned before posting though that the site is littered with the corpses of those pushing cloud based solutions.

Must admit when I first saw this I thought it was spam. Had a look at the site and in addition to what the guys nsaid, I noticed that they use a case study using a company called DNS. It's reads as though that is a third party company, but it looked to be a a connected company.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Well spotted Joanne, I didn't delve too much into the site so missed that. When doing my digging the other day (don't tell Shaun lol) I found that the Nomisma website was registered by DNS Associates Ltd, an accountants firm based in London.

No problems to them posting, and fair play to them in what they have brought to the market place, but perhaps a better introduction and hey, take a look at our product and tell us what you think, could have resulted in a good discussion.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi John,

you need to be carful not to over simplify relationships.

The director of Nomisma is now also a director of DNS but I think that you will find that this is a convergeance rather than DNS forming Nomisma.

Reading the DNS site it seems to me that the Nomisma software was originally a solution to facilitate franchising of the DNS brand but has been expanded to offer it as a direct solution.

All of it makes sound business sense as you would expect from a high profile quality accountancy firm, but the part that I would be adverse to suggesting is that the accountancy firm and the software are one and the same even though the interchange of directors would seem to suggest that being the case.

abacus12345 · Guru

So Xero are raising the price. Accountants have spread the software like Knotweed. Rod and back comes to mind. As Xero becomes smarter.....

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

abacus12345 wrote:
Accountants have spread the software like Knotweed.

That line had me in stitches.

Just checked it out and its an accross the board 10% increase.

The increases are worldwide, not just here so perhaps wrong for anyone to be thinking of the rise in terms of UK inflation figures. Also, the price is still cheaper in the UK than some other territories where the software is already better established such as New Zealand for Premium subscription that price is already (at todays exchange rates) £33.46 per month (Starter version is £13.14 pcm).

Its a sound business strategy. You keep raising the price and performing sensitivity analysis and when the uptake variance becomes too adverse you park your price for a while until uptake has started to catch up again.

The big question is whether people will pass on the price rises to their clients or take the hit themselves which will only be between £12 and £30 per year per client but I'm thinking for small practice with a couple of hundred clients on Xero that would be a hit of between £2.4k and £6k in additional charges.

VinceH · Expert

"So Xero are raising the price."

And so it begins.

abacus12345 · Guru

I think somewhere, somehow, I've missed a fundamental part of the cloud malarkey. I'm still at a loss. As Xero gets smarter, with more features, able to file tax returns and financial accounts - as it will, why would the majority of small businesses need an accountant? Most people now are tech savvy, the majority of people under 30, can do what an average IT technician can do, after a few youtube vids etc.....(AVERAGE) :P. If the software becomes smart enough to be able to work though, for instance the income tax act, able to turn the data into meaningful information...well....With the potential organic growth of Xero, I wouldn't put it out of their reach.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

abacus12345 wrote:
why would the majority of small businesses need an accountant?

I think that you should post that question as a new thread Johnny as its a topic with the potential to overtake the remit of this one.

VinceH · Expert

That's part of the problem, Johnny. Some - but by no means all - of the marketing does seem to hint at not needing to employ the likes of us. However, what that misses isn't just the ability to access and use the software, but the knowledge, understanding and experience of the field in which we work. That's what we need to convey to business owners.

Bookkeeping and accounting is about more than just the software that's used.

abacus12345 · Guru

It's just my opinion whereby- prices rise, software gets smarter, displays financial data in linear...If you're lucky...:) with add ons you can take a snap and it's almost perfectly allocated...In future what if all invoices are barcoded, or come with QR codes, once limited companies have to file digitally too....A big circle of binary, all connected, waiting for data to be turned into information. Software can tell you if decision X is viable. The missing bit of the puzzle for me, at the moment is how the software can, and no doubt will, be able to interpret the tax acts. It's just an opinion, I'm seeing it in ways other than saving time for the accountant....

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Shamus wrote:
Hi John,

you need to be carful not to over simplify relationships.

I drew my conclusion from the website being registered to DNS, but agree that it's a standalone solution in it's own right.

I think the fact that an accountant is behind it adds more credance to the product.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Hi Johnny

Whilst at first I think there will be a rush for business people to do their accounts themselves a/ I think there will still be quite a few (probably those over 30 as a generalisation) that won't have a clue and will still require us, alternatively they may just be too busy)

Those that do use the software and ditch their accountant will come running back when HMRC start penalising them for either stupid mistakes or putting stuff through that they know they're not supposed to but think they'll get away with it because their accountant isn't there to check it.

I see an opportunity rather than a bleak future.