Sage VAT - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Taylor1 · Veteran Member

Sage VAT

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Rachel

Is this a client of yours? Sorry I may have mis-read your initial question and Ive assumed it is your own business?

In an effort to provide a little assistance - a few questions - which sage? Also - who keyed the journal and where from/where to/what tax code did you use? It might be appropriate to do a screen print of the offending item.

Only problem then is as we cannot see the rest of the process then what else could be incorrect in that whole submission? What else is wrong in the general accounts that might cause another issue at year end? That one item has jumped out at you, but what other entries shouldnt be on there that you might be missing and therefore cause you to overpay or underpay the VAT, which could result in fines and penalties.

-- Edited by Cheshire on Thursday 28th of April 2016 07:45:20 PM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Rachel
Ive just edited my comment as I think I made a wrong assumption - sorry if thats the case.

Can you provide a little background as to your experience?

Did you do the VAT wizard after your last VAT return and is this the journal entry?

Taylor1 · Veteran Member

Thank you for your reply. It's Sage 50 and it says in my last vat return VAT transferred and VAT submitted snd it's the sales tax amount that is coming up as the journal on my new vat return but in the purchases box and I know that i need to pay vat not reclaim it I am aware of the cinsequenses hence my post here for help X

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

What version of sage are you on? 2015/2016? Do you submit the VAT directly form sage to HMRC? So was it the figure form the last returns box1? Do you key the VAT transfer wizard manually? If so - sounds like you have used the wrong tax code?

Or does this occur as part of the VAT process through eg by just ticking the following screen?

VAT trans.jpg

Any chance you can add a screen print? Or perhaps the whole VAT detailed - just delete any identifying features and I will have a quick look later.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Would be useful to know your background so I can pitch the answer!!!!

Also - quick question - have you saved the latest VAT return or is it just in draft phase still?

Taylor1 · Veteran Member

I don't know how to add the picture but yes that's if it's the VAT transfer you have posted a picture of its transferred the sales tax amount to the purchases on the next vat return

Taylor1 · Veteran Member

It is just a draft I haven't submitted it of reconciled it, we are a scaffolding business and I have worked in accounts but my mind is coming to s blank in regards to this vat return (think it's the panic of it being wrong) all sales entered, all purchases are entered and the bank reconciles it's just this journal in the vat

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Do you have a phone - take a picture of the screen?

Or better still - add the file ie before you reconcile the VAt return, when it gives you the option to print it you can also save it - so you can then include it as an attachment if you post it to this site as the 'advanced editor' mode (see the bottom of your posting box on here - the other option is post a quick reply so ignore that one!), but you need to get rid of the company names.

What I need to find out is if you actually went through a 'wizard' process or the process I posted a picture of, or not? As the two processes are very different. Sounds like you have done it manually and keyed it as a T1?

I need to see it really to be sure.

Also I need to know if you have actually saved/reconciled this VAT return.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Taylor1 wrote:
It is just a draft I haven't submitted it of reconciled it, we are a scaffolding business and I have worked in accounts but my mind is coming to s blank in regards to this vat return (think it's the panic of it being wrong) all sales entered, all purchases are entered and the bank reconciles it's just this journal in the vat

Our posts about it being in draft crossed. So thats good at least! Always backup before you run the VAT just in case!

Other option is to go to the transactions/corrections screen and do me some sort of screen grab of the journal ( as well as the opposite entries).

Can you get to a PC so you can see my screen grabs?

Im adding one to show what it should look like when its right

(the first transaction is from box 1 of the return and moves the sales tax from the sales tax control to the VAT liability. The second line is the second half of that journal. The third line is representing box 4 and is the movement from the purchases tax control to the VAT liability with the fourth line the second half of that journal. The difference between the second and fourth line is the total VAT due.)

You will see that the journals are all keyed as T9 - that keeps them off the VAT return.

VAT wizard trans.jpg

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi,

no comment on Sage but to add pictures, if you are on a PC try this :

To create the pic :

CNTL + ALT + Print Screen

Open paint

Paste screen

crop to the bit of the screen that you want

Save the pic

To add a pic

You must be in advanced editor

attach files

Insert the picture into the post

you can view the post as it will appear by clicking the show preview button

Hope that helps.

now I'll run away from this thread and leave you in Joannes capable hands as I don't do the Sage queries.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

now I'll run away from this thread and leave you in Joannes capable hands as I don't do the Sage queries.

Lol, almost redeemed yourself from the 'bus' Comment. biggrin Now, what else would help....chocolate, wine, cocktails......

VinceH · Expert

Rachel! First of all:

Don't Panic!

You'll note that's written in large, friendly letters, just as it is on the cover of every traveller's trusty companion, the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

When you panic, it's harder to think straight, and you are likely to skip over things and just not see them. So take a step back, have a cuppa, relax, then come back to this.

Done that? Good.

Now, as Joanne asked in one of her comments, can you establish which version of Sage you are using? You've said it's Sage 50, but it also helps to know which 'year' it is (and/or the version number). There are a number of ways you can get this info:

When the program starts, if it's a multi-company set up, you should get a small window which lists your companies. The second column should be headed "Version" and for each company you should see something like "2013 (v19)"
If not, when the program is loaded look at the title bar across the top. It'll show the program title, followed by the program year, followed by the company name - for example, for me it says "Sage 50 Accounts Plus 2013 - Soft Rock Software"; we don't need the company name, only the program title up to and including the year.
A third option is to click on the word "Help" on the menu bar, then on "About" in the menu that appears. You might then have to wait a few moments while the "Support Homepage" is generated, but when it does, the top left panel should be titled "Program Details" and the first item in there will be the version number.

Now, reading through what you've written, you seem to have an issue whereby the outputs (sales) figure from the last return is appearing in your purchases. There are a couple of possible causes for this that spring to mind - and the most likely ones will also mean that your purchases from the previous return are in your sales on this one, and the same for the VAT elements of both: Your previous return's outputs (sales) VAT will probably be in this return's inputs (purchases) VAT, and the previous inputs VAT is probably in this return's outputs VAT. And if the overall amount you had to pay last time was higher than what you should have to pay this time, that means this time you will be incorrectly showing a refund. So, on the face of it, even though you've only spotted one part of the previous VAT journal, you've already found the error. We just need to 'fix' it.

And to do that, we need to understand why it's gone wrong.

Depending on the cause, it might be that the easiest 'fix' is to submit the VAT return manually with corrected figures. But let's see first...

As I said, there are a number of things that could have caused this. One is using an incorrect tax code when inputting the VAT journal, which may not affect every line (because each line of a journal has its own tax code) - but from what you said, you appear to have used the wizard, so in this case all of the lines of the journal will have the same tax code.

We need to know what that tax code is. You need to find the journal that was posted by the VAT transfer wizard and see what tax code was used for each line of the transaction.

Click on "Company" to get your main nominal ledger screen, and then on "Reports". In the "Nominal Reports" window click on "Day books" and hopefully you should see a report listed with the title "Day Books: Nominal Ledger". Run that report.

Leave most of the "Criteria Values" as they are apart from "Nominal Code". Make the range "Between (inclusive)" "2200" and "2202" then click on "Okay." The result should be a list of all your previous VAT transfers - with the last four being the journal for the last return. And one column should be headed "T/C" - for tax code. That's the information we need.

Normally, it would be T9 which in versions of Sage up until mine is called the "Non-Vatable tax code" and is typically used for exempt and/or out of scope; transactions that are not included in a VAT return.

Normally, the VAT transfer wizard uses this tax code for the journal, so that the figures are not included on the next return. This tax code is configurable - and I suspect that whatever tax code your VAT journal for the previous return shows, that's the tax code you have configured as the non-Vatable tax code.

If that's correctly showing T9, then we'll need to check something else to see why your Sage is including them on the VAT return. But do the above first to see what the tax code is that was used for the VAT transfer.

-- Edited by VinceH on Thursday 28th of April 2016 09:51:19 PM

Taylor1 · Veteran Member

You are very nice and very funny and very helpful vinceH I had to walk away for a bit due to the panic however now I am back with my answers I am using v22 Yes your correct my output sales from the previous return are appearing in my purchases and visa versa. I had used the button post transfer so they would all be the same. They are coming up with a T0 so do I need to change them all to T9? Thank you so much for your help your an absolute star and panic has now left me

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

You can get to the nominal code report information by also going through 'transactions' as I said.

will leave Vince to answer the rest of this methinks (given the above)

-- Edited by Cheshire on Thursday 28th of April 2016 11:58:20 PM

Taylor1 · Veteran Member

Sorry Jo goes without saying that you are very helpful too I am just rubbish at screen shots with a Mac

Taylor1 · Veteran Member

Tried reversing the journal and I'm making it worse think I had better walk away from it now..,,

VinceH · Expert

Right... v22 is newer than my version, but unless things have changed since, then unfortunately, you can't make any changes to a journal transaction.

That means you're stuck with those journals as they are. (Unless someone with a newer version can come forward and say "Yes you can! This changed in version !")

Another unfortunate problem is that the obvious solution of "reversing" the journals and posting them again correctly won't work - and the reason for that is the reason your previous quarter's journals are putting the sales VAT in the purchases, and vice versa: (Again, unless things have changed in newer versions) Sage treats any journal debit (with a VATable tax code) as belonging in the purchases/inputs, and any journal credit with a VATable tax code as sales/outputs - so if you were to 'credit' the sales VAT to stop it appearing on the purchases (and the other way around) you will actually *increase* the two amounts. It should be possible to get the bottom line right, but only by making the breakdown even more wrong. And the net outputs/inputs can't be fixed this way.

The easiest solution is probably to adjust the figures on paper (or in a spreadsheet) and submit the return manually. Another way is to post dummy invoices and credit notes on both the purchase and sales side. Either way, you need to ensure you make adequate notes in case you need to explain yourself if you have an inspection.

Before doing either, though, let's make sure Sage is behaving itself for future reference: On the menu bar, click on "Settings" and then "Company Preferences" on the menu. A window called "Company Preferences" should appear with a number of tabs: Click on "VAT". There should be a field there labelled "Non-Vatable Tax Code" - this will probably say "T0" on yours, so change it to "T9", then click "OK".

If I'm right, this was the cause of your problem. Sage uses the tax code specified there for the VAT transfer - and it was incorrect. There was a version of Sage many years ago that I believe was shipped to (some?) customers with this set incorrectly - I I was half expecting you to say your Sage was an old version; whichever version that was, but it's newer than mine! Perhaps good old Sage have done it again, bless 'em.

Now, just to double check, go back to the "Settings" menu and click on "Configuration". In the "Configuration Editor" window, go to the "Tax Codes" tab and scroll down to "T9". It should now say "Non-Vatable Tax Code" next to it (and the "In Use" column should say "N").

(An alternative solution to what I'm going to suggest below would be to change "T0" in that configuration window so that it's not put on the VAT return - but that means taking your Sage away from the usual set up, and could cause confusion further down the line, so we won't do that!)

Now, having set that correctly, let's fix your VAT return. The two options I'm going to suggest are:

Option 1: Manual calculation and submission

You need to subtract the figures from the previous return from the corresponding opposite boxes on the current return. In other words:

Box 1 this time should be the Box 1 this time as shown in Sage, minus Box 4 from last time.
Box 4 this time should be the Box 4 this time as shown in Sage, minus Box 1 from last time.
Box 6 this time should be the Box 6 this time as shown in Sage, minus Box 7 from last time.
Box 7 this time should be the Box 7 this time as shown in Sage, minus Box 6 from last time.

(I'm assuming there are no EC acquisitions, etc, to complicate matters!)

Hopefully, if you do the above calculations, the resulting figures will look like they should and be what you'd expect. If not, there are other problems to resolve - but I suspect that'll be it.

You can log-in to your VAT account on the HMRC website and submit the calculated figures.

In Sage, you'll still have the incorrect figures, but if you print out the return (and the previous one) and show the calculation, noting why you've done it, that's covered. Tell Sage to "Reconcile" that return. Do *not* tell it to submit the return (because you've done that manually) and do *not* let it perform the VAT transfer.

Instead, I believe newer versions of Sage allow you to tell it that the return has been submitted. Do this.

And I hope it will similarly allow you to tell it that the VAT transfer has been done. If so, do this.

Finally, do the VAT transfer manually, by posting a journal - the box 1 figure should be debited to 2200 and credited to 2202, and the box 4 figure should be credited to 2201 and debited to 2202. Use T9 for every line.

Option 2: Posting dummy transactions in Sage.

I generally don't recommend people do stuff like this unless they're, um, me - particularly because while I may have done something like this before, when fixing VAT returns in that older version of Sage, but if so it's a long time ago. For all intents and purposes, therefore, this is a theoretical, unproven fix that I'm half remembering/half making up as I go along. If you want to try this take a backup first, try it, and if it's gone awry, restore the backup.

You need to reduce your outputs and inputs (both net and VAT) by the previous quarters outputs and inputs - but you only want these figures to be reflected on the VAT return, not on your P&L.

Again, refer to your previous quarter's VAT return, and post the following transactions:

A Sales "credit note" with the box 7 figure as the net amount, "T0" as the tax code, and the box 4 figure in the VAT column.
A Sales "invoice" with the box 7 figure as the net amount, "T9" as the the tax code, and the box 4 figure in the VAT column.
A Purchase "credit note" with the box 6 figure as the net amount, "T0" as the tax code, and the box 1 figure in the VAT column.
A Purchase "invoice" with the box 6 figure as the net amount, "T9" as the tax code, and the box 1 figure in the VAT column.

The respective credit note and invoice will cancel themselves out in terms of the P&L - but (if I'm thinking this through correctly) the credits as T0 will cancel out the VAT return problem (with the invoice being T9 so that we don't just recreate it again.)

I repeat again: That's sort of half remembered/half made up and what I think SHOULD work - but make a backup before trying it just in case it doesn't.

And I should stress that both solutions are based on what I think has gone wrong going by what you've said. If there are any other errors in there as well, or if there's been any miscommunication or misunderstanding, it's possible neither will solve your problem. So check your workings / take backups at every step. etc. etc. blah, blah, blah.

But hopefully, we've solved it.

VinceH · Expert

Oh, blast - you tried the "obvious" solution while I was typing my post. :(

PLEASE tell me you backed up first!

If so, restore your backup and work from my post.

If not, I'll have to visualise the result to come up with a slightly longer fix! :(

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

hi Vince, I have to do some right old convoluted stuff via sage in the past when these types of things have happened and would do through ZZ dummy 'bookkeepers use only' customer/supplier accounts in older sage versions. I do have v22 so dealing with journals is easier, although I've not had to sort one of these out yet for a client, so I would need access to view what you can do - right now I logged out of my PC (!!) and cannot remember.

abacus12345 · Guru

It amazes me how some will go above and beyond on this forum to help others.

Taylor1 · Veteran Member

I thought I could reverse it so essentially it's made the VAT correct but the sales tax and purchase tax has gone through the roof I have logged off now I really thought you could reverse it You two need w medal for all your help and assistance if i could send you flowers and chocolates I would I cant believe the effort you have out in to help me.....just amazing I can't thank you enough xx

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:

Before doing either, though, let's make sure Sage is behaving itself for future reference: On the menu bar, click on "Settings" and then "Company Preferences" on the menu. A window called "Company Preferences" should appear with a number of tabs: Click on "VAT". There should be a field there labelled "Non-Vatable Tax Code" - this will probably say "T0" on yours, so change it to "T9", then click "OK". Only problem now is, what else should've been coded non vatable that is also on the VAt return as an incorrect T0 . Which was why I was suggesting the detailed report to check for any glaringly obvious ones.

If I'm right, this was the cause of your problem. Sage uses the tax code specified there for the VAT transfer - and it was incorrect. There was a version of Sage many years ago that I believe was shipped to (some?) customers with this set incorrectly - I I was half expecting you to say your Sage was an old version; whichever version that was, but it's newer than mine! Perhaps good old Sage have done it again, bless 'em.
no,Vince, it's not Sage, v22 is fine, I checked that before I ran the first example screen shot, but it does sound like this sage has been manually 'interfered' with.

.

Taylor1 · Veteran Member

It has not been manually interfered with because I have only uploaded it from sage website and ran the update it told me to run the other day. Anything that I know needs to be T9 has been made as such when I have manually entered things, I have checked the settings and changed this now to a T9 its just the sales tax from previous I have to sort out now to get this correct

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

That's weird then, might've be an update error (bit like Microsofts windows 10!!). I would feed that back to Sage - if you dont want to, let me know and I will.

Are you on the monthly pay as you go version or perpetual licence? If it is monthly download you should have sage cover in the fee. Perpetual - I dont do the updates as they just screw around with backups, although there are ways to resolve this and so I might update mine at some point.

Anyway sage 22 has some nice little tweaks, although for those without much experience out there, like the chap who posted on BKN about sage earlier this week, please use it very carefully and only when you understand the FULL impact, especially when Bank and VAT reconciled and as some journals have T1 codes on them!!!!! You might like this one Vince! Although, hey who needs it when you know your way around biggrin

https://my.sage.co.uk/public/help/accounts/installation/sage50accountsupgrade.aspx

-- Edited by Cheshire on Friday 29th of April 2016 08:54:59 AM

VinceH · Expert

Joanne:

Where I've suggested Sage themselves might have been the source of the config change, note the word "(some?)" - i.e. I'm suggesting it hasn't affected every customer, just like it didn't all those years ago. That time, I'd guess a 'batch' of CDs. This time, since it's a download, perhaps a brief period for that version. Either way, it's just speculation based on something that I saw happen with Sage many (as in at least 10, I should think) years ago: A few completely independent installations were similarly affected (and yet others weren't).

You are correct that there is still an issue with other transactions being similarly affected, though: Anything whereby Sage itself generates the journals. It was late last night, and I didn't think about the possibility: If this config-change happened before the last year end, then the automatic journals posted to clear the P&L for example, or if the fixed asset register is used, depreciation journals. Prepayments and accruals could also be affected if they're dealt with by Sage itself, as well. Payroll? Since I don't do payroll, I don't know what happens if Sage Payroll integrates with Sage 50 to post payroll journals.

Rachel:

If you updated Sage "the other day" then it was probably the (or a) previous version in which the fault appeared - assuming you ran the VAT transfer wizard three months ago, which would be the normal approach; running it just after doing the VAT return.

So this is something that needs to be double checked - to start with: when did you run the wizard?

And going back to last night's post, did you back-up before attempting to reverse those journals?

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
Joanne:

Where I've suggested Sage themselves might have been the source of the config change, note the word "(some?)" - i.e. I'm suggesting it hasn't affected every customer, just like it didn't all those years ago.Fair does That time, I'd guess a 'batch' of CDs. This time, since it's a download, perhaps a brief period for that version. Im wondering if it was perpectual licence with generic upgrade v the monthly clients- which also dont affect everyone. Either way, it's just speculation based on something that I saw happen with Sage many (as in at least 10, I should think) years ago: A few completely independent installations were similarly affected (and yet others weren't).

You are correct that there is still an issue with other transactions being similarly affected, though: Anything whereby Sage itself generates the journals. It was late last night, and I didn't think about the possibility: If this config-change happened before the last year end, then the automatic journals posted to clear the P&L for example, or if the fixed asset register is used, depreciation journals. Prepayments and accruals could also be affected if they're dealt with by Sage itself, as well. Absolutely! I had a gander round sage and couldnt see if a problem had been reported, but then I dont have time for doing too much digging this morning Payroll? Since I don't do payroll, I don't know what happens if Sage Payroll integrates with Sage 50 to post payroll journals.

Rachel:

If you updated Sage "the other day" then it was probably the (or a) previous version in which the fault appeared - assuming you ran the VAT transfer wizard three months ago, which would be the normal approach; running it just after doing the VAT return.

So this is something that needs to be double checked - to start with: when did you run the wizard?

And going back to last night's post, did you back-up before attempting to reverse those journals?

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hey Vince - congrats on your 1000th posting!!!!!!!!!!!!

VinceH · Expert

"You might like this one Vince!"

Not if it involves money going from me to Sage. I don't do business with spammers.

If I ever find I have no choice but to buy a new version of the software, I will try to minimise the amount they get - so for example, if I only need the update for one company, I'll likely opt for Instant (from a third party supplier) and a new, separate laptop on which to install it. Doing it that way might cost *me* more, but they'll get less added to their turnover.

https://my.sage.co.uk/public/help/accounts/installation/sage50accountsupgrade.aspx

I see that does say journals can be reversed and/or edited.

Perhaps it would be better if someone more familiar with newer versions helped Rachel. If it's possible to correct the actual journals, that would be better than posting dummy entries to attempt to fix the overall figures.

(My method is effectively a bodge/work around for limitations in older versions.)

VinceH · Expert

Oh, 1,000th post, huh?

Gosh, well, er, I haven't prepared a speech... ;)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Congratulations Vince.... Will there be cake?

VinceH · Expert

I have arranged for cake to be available at your local bakery. All sorts should be available, from simple iced buns, through chocolate eclairs, up to whatever are the most expensive cakes they sell.

However, whichever cake you choose, you have to pay for it yourself. :p

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Fair enough. I don't need much excuse... I'm counting the purchase price as your pressie though... Right, lets see how generous I'm feeling wink

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
"You might like this one Vince!"
Not if it involves money going from me to Sage. I don't do business with spammers.
If I ever find I have no choice but to buy a new version of the software, I will try to minimise the amount they get - so for example, if I only need the update for one company, I'll likely opt for Instant (from a third party supplier) and a new, separate laptop on which to install it. Doing it that way might cost *me* more, but they'll get less added to their turnover.
https://my.sage.co.uk/public/help/accounts/installation/sage50accountsupgrade.aspx
I see that does say journals can be reversed and/or edited.
Perhaps it would be better if someone more familiar with newer versions helped Rachel. If it's possible to correct the actual journals, that would be better than posting dummy entries to attempt to fix the overall figures.
(My method is effectively a bodge/work around for limitations in older versions.)

So sorry for the confusion - I was expecting to drop a link in for a video about enhancements to sage, but didnt check the link I was dumping! Wondered why you we talking about paying sage, or more to the point not doing so. Anyway - after much routing around Ive again found the vid, but can see I cannot send a link just for that, as its just detailed in the one I sent before. Someone of your capabilities might be able to send it, but me - nope! Anyway - if you go to the link, then down the page to new features, then to the video link for 'corrections made easy'. Will certainly help the OP, although it goes with the usual caveats of knowing what impact it will have, ensuring none of the ones you are using it for have been Bank reconciled/VAT reconciled or indeed will have no VAT impact as well all know when T1 can and is used on such entries.

The answer is here Rach.

-- Edited by Cheshire on Saturday 30th of April 2016 11:20:56 AM

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
I have arranged for cake to be available at your local bakery. All sorts should be available, from simple iced buns, through chocolate eclairs, up to whatever are the most expensive cakes they sell.

However, whichever cake you choose, you have to pay for it yourself. :p

Woahhhhh, dont encourage the competition, Im the ONLY baker allowed around these 'ere parts!!

Although my cakes are free - now I know where Im going wrong.

Thought you might like this one - its not one of mine, but apparently a Chartered Accountant themed cake - love the way they have depicted the Accountant accurately - asleep or perhaps even dead at his desk, on his birthday too!!!!! Oh the dedication!

Let them eat cake.jpg

VinceH · Expert

I hadn't noticed video links on that page - but now you've mentioned them, I guess that's what the little icons next to the feature lists are!

Anyway, the video next to the 'Corrections Made Easy' link is here: www.youtube.com/watch (Just about to watch it now).

VinceH · Expert

And now that I've watched it - yes, it's done the way I would expect. And, yes, it should be just what Rachel needs to use!

Rachel: The things you need to do:

1) Watch that video so you can see how it's done!

2) Delete your attempted 'reversal' of the VAT transfer.

3) Edit the VAT transfer itself and change the tax codes from T0 to T9.

If that's the only thing that's affecting your VAT return, that should do it - but note what I said about when this default non-VAT tax code hitting your system; I'm inclined to think a previous update. Therefore scan back over your journals and look for anything else that should be T9 but is T0 - and, if possible, change those as well.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
And now that I've watched it - yes, it's done the way I would expect. And, yes, it should be just what Rachel needs to use!

Rachel: The things you need to do:

1) Watch that video so you can see how it's done!

2) Delete your attempted 'reversal' of the VAT transfer.

3) Edit the VAT transfer itself and change the tax codes from T0 to T9.

If that's the only thing that's affecting your VAT return, that should do it - but note what I said about when this default non-VAT tax code hitting your system; I'm inclined to think a previous update. Therefore scan back over your journals and look for anything else that should be T9 but is T0 - and, if possible, change those as well.

Knew you would like that one Vince. But certainly good for peeps to understand the route you did for those without access to 2016 sage! Still concerned that the update sage have put out there is the cause and nothing is being indicated on their site, but has it indeed been reported back to them (might do this myself)

Rachel -Dont forget your backups before you do all of this. Plus test you back up works as we have seen a few on here be unable to restore them!