Keeping up to date - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

angmc · Member

Keeping up to date

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

The bible as such would be Tolleys yellow and orange tax annuals (available from Lexis Nexis) however, you may find those hard going unless you are looking to be a tax specialist.

Being more pragmatic with what we need to know for Tax I get the new editions of two books every year which serve as my basis before getting additional details from the web.

The Kaplan study text for ACCA paper P6 : kaplan-publishing.kaplan.co.uk/acca-books/p6/pages/complete-text.aspx (which for FA15 they are six months late publishing this year so I probably won't buy it)

And Taxation by Melville : www.amazon.co.uk/Taxation-Finance-2016-Alan-Melville/dp/1292139102/ref=sr_1_2 (not published yet for FA16 but at this stage in the year there's little point going for the FA15 version (I try to get that in December each year to read over Christmas in the lull before the January storm)).

Combine those with regular reading of Taxation, Taxadvisor or Taxationweb websites and you've got it nailed.

You also need to stay abreast of changes in financial reporting standards for which I would go with getting the newsletters from Accountancy Age and Accountingweb (although Aweb is not now as good a site as it was a couple of months back) plus keep your eye on the website of your professional body (or other peoples. ACCA and ICAEW sites are always good for a read as are some of their Linkedin groups although you may find those closed off to non members of the body concerned.

For financial reporting standards summaries that are always kept up to date I find Deloitte's IASPLUS collection of webpages really useful (also covers UKGAAP as well as IAS's) although I prefer to read standards in original form from the FRC's site rather than other peoples interpretations of them.

I think that the real issue with staying abreast of information in this business is that there is too much information freely available and you can end up spending your life keeping up with the business rather than making any money from it.

HTH,

Shaun.

abacus12345 · Guru

As Shaun says, just to confirm lol!!! It depends how far you want to go with it - join branch events, enrol on a course of study above the one you have already completed. For instance if you've completed AAT, go for ATT. You can buy the texts from tolleys at £100 each, I've recently checked :) being an eventual member of ATT comes with its own benefits, magazine / tolleys smaller handbook. As said, depends how far you want to go with it. HTH

angmc · Member

Thanks for the replies. I suppose it's just a matter of keeping on top of it. I'm nearing the end of AAT (studying the business tax unit at the moment) and trying to decide what to do next and realising what a big complicated issue taxation is and I'm sure AAT only scratches the surface! I might go down the CIMA/ATT route although I'd prefer to do ACCA but the restrictions are putting me off that.

abacus12345 · Guru

Yeah your best bet would be CIMA / ATT if you're SE.

I'd sit ATT first, followed by CIMA.

CIMA is still a world class Chartered accountancy qualification.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

angmc wrote:
I might go down the CIMA/ATT route although I'd prefer to do ACCA but the restrictions are putting me off that.

Depends on what you want out of life/who you want to work for/what you want to do. If ACCA was an ultimate goal, dont let their restrictions stop you.

angmc · Member

Well I'm working in industry at the moment doing day to day bookkeeping and some management accounts for an engineering company. I can't ever see myself working in practice but I would, at some stage, like to do a bit of freelance work on a part time basis but I'd be very limited as to what I could do with ACCA. I know I could do this with just AAT but I would like to get a chartered qualification so CIMA seems the best option. I could of course study the relevant ACCA material not covered by CIMA to gain the knowledge needed without doing the qualification.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Angela,

whilst reading the ACCA material will help to understand what ACCA covers that CIMA does not reading the books doesn't put you in the same position as taking the exams.

The ACCA exams are VERY time pressured so to take them everything from a huge syllabus for each paper that also assumes brought forwards knowledge from earlier studies has to be learnt to such a level that in the exam hall everything comes instinctively rather than having to think about it. If you have to stop and think then you've failed. you have 1.8 minutes per point but that hides the fact that you often need to do a huge number of complex calculations that carry no points in order to get to the observations, analysis and conclusions where you can get some points.

As a guide any one of the four questions that one needs to answer in the exam could easily take the full 3 hours to answer properly but you have to fit all four answer into that time.

I'm currently talking to the ACCA about regulation 8 for just this reason that too many good people are settling on other qualifications that they would not otherwise choose simply because there is no way that they can see themselves being in a position to practice under the ACCA banner.

It does seem ridiculous that at the moment we have accountants with 10 plus years experience and the three years signed off in order to move to membership but they are still only allowed to work up to trial balance.

So, fully trained and experienced accountants can only work as bookkeepers but part qualified bookkeepers are allowed to work as accountants! Where is the logic in that!

The ACCA is a truly great body and regulation 8 is important to ensure public confidence in the quality of service that people would receive from ACCA approved practices. However, the market has moved on where regulation 8 has not and we are now in a position where ACCA students seem to be being punished for choosing (what I consider) the best.

I truly believe that ACCA should adopt a system similar to the AAT and CIMA where people can offer limited accountancy services pre practice certificate provided that they make no mention of any affiliation with the ACCA.

I would suggest that full members who have their letters should be allowed to service simple limited companies up to £200k per client and students (after doing the first nine papers) & Affiliates (passed all the papers but do not yet have three years signed off experience) be allowed to handle the self employed up to £50k turnover per client.

Its still very limited services pre ACCA pratice certificate but at least people would on a self employed basis be able to gain the right skills, experience and number of clients in order to make themselves of interest to local practices who could then exchange the clients brought to them for practice certificate supervision.

I'll keep the site informed if my letter to the ACCA gets anywhere. It may not.

angmc · Member

Shaun, thanks for the very detailed reply.

I couldn't agree more with you re regulation 8. I would definitely be more likely to do ACCA rather than CIMA if it wasn't for it. I'd be very interested to hear the response to your letter.

Just one thing I should mention, I did an online chat with CIMA via their website, It was a couple of years ago now but I've still got the transcript, one of the questions I asked was if I was working as an AAT MIP and I had gained the CIMA qualification (but not the practice certificate) would I be able to use the CIMA letters on letterheads/business cards etc. and they said so long as I stated that I was an AAT MIP I could also say I was CIMA qualified. so it would seem you can use the letters pre practice certificate which is another reason I'd be more inclined to go with CIMA.

abacus12345 · Guru

I think if you pay for an exam you will put more effort into the reading -

I'll be interested to see how your quest goes with ACCA Shaun - I agree, ACCA is the best qualification for practice.

CIMA is an interesting one for practice, after much research, and thread creation...I think I that (Shaun posted I believe) 1% of CIMA members are MIP's, that is a very small group of elite accountants.

CIMA is just as difficult, and prestigious as ACCA, it just goes off onto an almost different direction after operational level, compared to ACCA - The main missing component of CIMA is the tax element, you could do ATT but this would end up being a lifetimes worth of exams.

I would do ATT first, then after say two years you've another solid qualification, then tackle CIMA.

Having spoken to a couple of AAT MIP's with CIMA, they tell me they use what they have learned from studying the AAT. I'll hazard a guess at that being due to the fact that most of their clients are tiny.

(I'm not saying having a chartered qualification is irrelevant, not at all)

From reading some of the Chartered texts I personally found it opens your mind to things you'd never considered - you'll have to read a book or two to understand my meaning :)

You could do ATT > CIOT.

It is a hard decision to make.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

abacus12345 wrote:
I think if you pay for an exam you will put more effort into the reading -

I'll be interested to see how your quest goes with ACCA Shaun - I agree, ACCA is the best qualification for practice.

CIMA is an interesting one for practice, after much research, and thread creation...I think I that (Shaun posted I believe) 1% of CIMA members are MIP's, that is a very small group of elite accountants.

CIMA is just as difficult, and prestigious as ACCA, it just goes off onto an almost different direction after operational level, compared to ACCA - The main missing component of CIMA is the tax element, you could do ATT but this would end up being a lifetimes worth of exams.

I would do ATT first, then after say two years you've another solid qualification, then tackle CIMA.

Having spoken to a couple of AAT MIP's with CIMA, they tell me they use what they have learned from studying the AAT. I'll hazard a guess at that being due to the fact that most of their clients are tiny.

(I'm not saying having a chartered qualification is irrelevant, not at all)

From reading some of the Chartered texts I personally found it opens your mind to things you'd never considered - you'll have to read a book or two to understand my meaning :)

You could do ATT > CIOT.

It is a hard decision to make.

Hi Johnny,

the percentages that I quoted were verifiable figures taken from the FRC's annual report on trends in accountancy.

The figure that you missed out there was that despite there being more people in Practice who are ACCA there are also more in Corporate (although the actual percentage breakdowns vary greatly between industry sectors. All that I can say is that from personal experience in the financial services sector I would concurr with the FRC's published breakdown).

As for which is more complex, ACCA officially wins as paper P2 (the beast) was found to be the most complex and time pressured paper of any professional accountancy body and that includes ICAEW. Surprisingly quite a high percentage of those sitting P2 pass it often coming in at around 49% pass rate unlike the later papers such as P5 where pass rates are often down around the 28% mark.

So, as for which is more prestigous... I would say ACCA (but then again I would wouldn't I) Sure that David (Balantine) would say CIMA. I think that it all comes down to which qualification one has sweated blood to achieve.

Certainly in the corporate marketplace for the most part in my experience there is little if any priority given to one over the other although on the practice side CIMA is considered the lesser the same as ACCA is against ICAEW. I didn't say that the judgements were fair, just the way that they are.

The above said I have encountered on firm where it was believed that CIMA people are management accountants and ACCA people are financial accountants. I shocked them somewhat at interview but obviously not enough to change their preconceived bias towards CIMA candidates.

I think that your advice about matching up AAT and ATT is excellent as it gives a good all round knowledge base for servicing the micro to SME market.

Some of what you need to learn with both ACCA and CIMA you never use where your client base is restricticed to either SME practice or corporate work. And yet more of what you do need to know you do not learn in enough depth for the real world. However, all in all that you know of the existence of subject matter regardless as to whether you use it is still I feel and important part of the journey as if ever you did need that information you may not know it off the top of your head but you will understand the context of its usage and exactly where to look for more information plus you will also know the associated knowledge requirements.

abacus12345 · Guru

Hi Shaun.

Whoever has ACCA / CIMA / ICAEW qualification, has the best :)

There are notable advantages to having ACCA, as an oppose to CIMA if you happen to work in practice.

I'd personally choose ACCA, if I couldn't use ACCA, I'd study for CIMA - with ATT, OR ATT > CIOT - None are easy, nor instant.

For practical simplicity, without the red tape, qualifications to earn, and publicly use are AAT > ATT.

Just my opinion.

Of course I'd love a Chartered qualification ;)

It will always be subjective, there are pro's and con's to each.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

abacus12345 wrote:
Hi Shaun.

Whoever has ACCA / CIMA / ICAEW qualification, has the best :)

Or the people/practices/corporates etc employing them decide. wink I came across very few CIMA peeps in my past life, even within the major mix of sectors/industries I dealt with.

Its a tough decision to make prior to embarking on a career that takes so long to achieve as you never know what personal and professional obstacles/opportunities you are likely to encounter along the way.

abacus12345 · Guru

Indeed. The choices are vast. I doubt there would be any disappointment within any of them once you've started. I 'think' when you are up at that 'corporate' level, experience plays more a role.

:)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

abacus12345 wrote:

Indeed. The choices are vast. I doubt there would be any disappointment within any of them once you've started. I 'think' when you are up at that 'corporate' level, experience plays more a role.

:)

Some its experience, exams, body, how many times you failed (ie never!), which red brick uni, which school, who you know and what you had for lunch!!!!!!!

In reality - governing body is often key, with some of the financial institutions providing corporates with their funding guiding you in the direction of, or even dictating, which body for employed personnel (FDs etc) as well as for your advisors. I saw this a lot starting around about 1996 onwards.

abacus12345 · Guru

Ha! Elitism!

I'd just started year 8 then :)

I guess once you are in the company you wouldn't be too fussed whether they'd pay for ACCA study or CIMA study - That is assuming they'd pay!

It isn't a cheap, short road to enter, the Chartered one, both have advantages and disadvantages.

For me it is Reg 8 V No tax in CIMA.

What you don't learn in CIMA, which you could in ACCA, you may never use. (Not including Tax here :))

Study ACCA, and you may never be able to publicly display the fact you've spent years learning the art.

For me, that would be a killer!

Each of us are different.

:)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

abacus12345 wrote:
Ha! Elitism!

I'd just started year 8 then :) Hey be careful you, young whippersnapper! Mind you I was only 10 then!!! Started my career very young!

I guess once you are in the company you wouldn't be too fussed whether they'd pay for ACCA study or CIMA study - That is assuming they'd pay! All the ones Im aware of paid for their own! Ive certainly never had any freebies.

It isn't a cheap, short road to enter, the Chartered one, both have advantages and disadvantages. My point is - from my own experience there are more ACCAs and ICAEWs in the 'top' spots. But its each to their own. If you want something badly enough, for whatever reason, you dont let a few minor obstacles get in the way. That is like creating your own glass ceiling and there are enough people out there ready to do it for you! (I dont just mean in the Accounting arena)

For me it is Reg 8 V No tax in CIMA.

What you don't learn in CIMA, which you could in ACCA, you may never use. (Not including Tax here :))

Study ACCA, and you may never be able to publicly display the fact you've spent years learning the art.

For me, that would be a killer!

Each of us are different.

:)

abacus12345 · Guru

He he! I definitely don't agree with creating our own personal glass ceiling. Totally agree - that is what others try to bestow over us.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Cheshire wrote:
abacus12345 wrote:
Ha! Elitism!

I'd just started year 8 then :) Hey be careful you, young whippersnapper! Mind you I was only 10 then!!! Started my career very young!

I guess once you are in the company you wouldn't be too fussed whether they'd pay for ACCA study or CIMA study - That is assuming they'd pay! All the ones Im aware of paid for their own! Ive certainly never had any freebies.
Lol, same here joanne. I was told that I needed to get a quality accounting qualification if I wanted to progress but there was never any offer of them paying for it or indeed even giving you any time off to study it

It isn't a cheap, short road to enter, the Chartered one, both have advantages and disadvantages. My point is - from my own experience there are more ACCAs and ICAEWs in the 'top' spots. But its each to their own. If you want something badly enough, for whatever reason, you dont let a few minor obstacles get in the way. That is like creating your own glass ceiling and there are enough people out there ready to do it for you! (I dont just mean in the Accounting arena)

For me it is Reg 8 V No tax in CIMA.

What you don't learn in CIMA, which you could in ACCA, you may never use. (Not including Tax here :))
Have to disagree with it just being about tax. Both qualifications have things that you may never use but I believe that the Audit skills that you pick up with ACCA are key skills for anyone dealing with SME's... It hones your cynicism skills! It certainly made me think that all accountants should study audit even where (like me) they have no intention of ever being an auditor (way too liitious for my liking).
Also the level of financial reporting knowledge that you develop with ACCA is higher than that of CIMA.

Study ACCA, and you may never be able to publicly display the fact you've spent years learning the art.

For me, that would be a killer!

Each of us are different.

:)

Joanne made a very apt comment a few posts back "which red brick uni, which school, who you know". That is often very relevant to your CV finding the right desk. Its not whether you have a degree but where you took your degree.
In fact, now days its where you took your MBA as degree's just don't cut the mustard the way that they used to for the good jobs.
With ACCA you can get a degree (BSc.) from Oxford Brookes University after the first nine papers but I personally didn't pursue that. When you move up to membership you have the otpion of taking an MBA with the same Uni (and yes, it's a real Oxford University) for £10,600 with a mix of distance learning and attendance (thats a very much reduced price only available to ACCA members).
Personally I just don't have the time but I will say that where I saw little point in the BSc. I do very much see the point in the MBA.

abacus12345 · Guru

Neither of you are wrong :) I wouldn't dare anyhow lol. I think it is fair to say that ACCA, for many of the members of the forum is out of reach, due to reg 8. Now, obviously if you stop at TB and VAT, maybe not. If there was no reg 8 it would be an easy choice - ACCA, all day long. But as with life, there is, so the next best move is CIMA with ATT, or ATT > CIOT. ATT > CIMA is the better choice, you'd be mixing advanced tax with advanced accounting. As an oppose to basic accounting with extreme tax. Just how I see it, best to keep it rounded if possible :)

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Cheshire wrote:
abacus12345 wrote:
Ha! Elitism!

I'd just started year 8 then :) Hey be careful you, young whippersnapper! Mind you I was only 10 then!!! Started my career very young!
I was 8 years old then, and had just started sweeping out chimneys!!

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hi,

Just a query about alternatives to doing ATT. The reason for my query is, if I were ever to go into practice, I would need to refresh and expand the tax knowledge that I gained when I did my CIMA tax exam many years ago. Now I don't necessarily want to get a tax qualification as such, I just want to do a course that concludes with a test or exam which brings my knowledge to an acceptable practical standard. I want to avoid the process of getting a sponsor to support your initial application and having to achieve the experience requirements with the necessary supporting references.

The qualification would have to be good enough to enable me to provide services to sole traders, partnerships and small limited companies.

Choices include:

The AAT tax qualification. The AAT has its own stand alone tax qualification. However, I have read that for corporation tax it lacks depth. I am a member of the AAT.

Federation of Tax Advisers qualification offered by the Institute of Financial Accountants. The recommended texts include some of the texts mentioned by Shaun earlier.

Study the relevant elements of ATT and do a mock exam with a reputable tuition organisation (Kaplan/BPP).

Study the ACCA tax exams and do a mock exam with a reputable tuition organisation (Kaplan/BPP).

The main criteria is which one would get my tax knowledge to an acceptable standard the quickest.

Thoughts and opinions please.

Thanks,

David.

abacus12345 · Guru

I'm not sure about the IFA tax qualification, I've heard of it though. If you search for the ATT syllabus, it shows you the breakdown of what is included in each paper. I would say that ATT covers incorporation in a greater depth than ACCA. That is going off BPP study texts of ACCA. You can buy ATT study texts for 100 each from tolleys.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

For what you suggest Davd ACCA F6 / P6 will no longer be an option as they no longer publish the latest sitting papers on their site.

It used to be that they published the exam and stock answer directly after the exam sitting but this has been dropped.

The exam was for the latest finance act so doing P6 really prepared you for in depth understanding of tax including the calculations although it has to be said that form filling is not part of ACCA so you know how to calculates the elements of a CT600 but you do not know how to fill in a CT600 if that makes sense.

That impressed me about AAT that they use the actual HMRC forms in their optional tax papers. Then again, the clues in the name "Technician".

Anyway, the ACCA have now stopped publishing old papers so you would need to buy a revision book from Kaplan or / and BPP which is basically questions from old ACCA tax papers that have been brought up to date for the latest finance act. Then you need to look at the index to see when those papers were sat and rebuild some papers as they were originally set in order to test yourself.

I generaly use Kaplan materials and the last time that I worked through revision text for P6 it was made up of the full exam papers from 8 sittings plus selected questions from a further 4 sittings. Total of 107 questions from actual exams (and non of thm are small questions!) plus an updated pilot paper and set of answers.

Tax isn't one of those things that you can put on a timer but rather its a case of it takes as long as it takes.

To get up to a standard to sit a top table exam I would say around three months of pretty solid study. My approach is to read the study text cover to cover over one month at a chapter a day then a month of an exam a day where you are able to refer back to the study text for things that you are unsure of and spend a long time analysing your answers against the stock answers supplier with the exam kit.

Then do a month of an exam a day under timed conditions only refering to the books after you have finished the exam.

If you can legitimise more than 50% from the scoring scheme under timed conditions then you have your foundations on which to start to build your tax knowledge base.

If you take this approach for dealing with SME businesses I would go with paper F6 (Taxation) rather than P6 (Advanced Taxation). They cover much the same material but P6 looks at tax advice for various different legal forms (individuals, unincorporated businesses and incorporated ones) in a lot more depth as the idea is that at F6 you are working in an accounts office but at P6 you are running it.

Hope that helps.

Shaun.

abacus12345 · Guru

Hi Shaun, Is there much coverage (enough) in Kaplan texts in regards to incorporating? BPP didn't really cover it very well in last years F6/P6

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

abacus12345 wrote:
I would say that ATT covers incorporation in a greater depth than ACCA.

Hi Johnny,

Started my answer before this mornings school run and only just got around to sending it so I had not seen your answer before posting mine.

I'm not sure what you mean by the above line. What makes you think that ATT covers incorporation in greater depth?

If you can describe what you mean I'll be able to confirm (or not) your statement.

kindest regards,

Shaun

abacus12345 · Guru

The ATT has the corporate tax paper, which covers incorporation. From what I've read in BPP P6, there isn't much coverage on the subject. I just wondered as Kaplan P6 is almost twice the size, whether there is, and you believe it covers the subject enough? Thanks

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Sounds as though you are spotting the reason why to go for Kaplan study texts and exam kits Johnny!

Kaplan P6 5.8 cm deep (1188 pages). BPP P6 3.3 cm deep (don't know the number of pages)

Is your question why to incorporate or how to incorporate?

I'm assuming the former as ACCA is about what you are attempting to achieve, not the filling of the forms to achieve it. But, looking at some old ATT papers they ae not about form filling either.

A quite large chunk of the P6 study text is turned over to cessation of unincorporated entities (basically tax planning for moving from being a sole trader to incorporation). Elements of the it are spread over a number of chapters but see in particular Chapters 18, 26 and 29 plus chapter 21 on the VAT issues around incorporation of an entity previously run on an unincorporated basis.

The P6 syllabus also expects for you to be building on P2 (and to a certain extent P1) which must have been attempted by the time that one sits P6 so there is no excuse for not understanding why entities may decide to incorporate beyond the tax iimplications.

I am not saying here that ACCA covers more as I have not looked at the ATT syllabus. What I am saying is that incorporation is not the battlefield that ATT is going to win a syllabus war on.

HTH,

Shaun.

-- Edited by Shamus on Friday 10th of June 2016 11:31:59 AM

abacus12345 · Guru

Hi. Yes I think Kaplan have the better texts. Looking at why, and how - the why is easier to cover, the how, I'd want it to explain, plus refer to the Acts, even if it only touches upon them. I've not studied ATT, although most who do seem to buy the orange and yellow books to compliment the course. That in itself doesn't say much, however, do the ATT texts refer to the legislation? Again I don't know because ATT texts are so expensive, and unless they are current(ish) or you're sitting the exam, it would be a waste of cash. There are of course books published by tolleys, serious books - maybe that is the solution, gain the advanced basics, to then progress onto incorporation / disincorporation by tolleys. Or even CIOT.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I think that you misunderstand me Johnny,

The why is the complexity, the how is following the HMRC / Companies house form filling guidance from a perspective of knowing from your qualification what you are attempting to achieve.

No professional qualification is going to cover the how part.

ACCA and ATT will both give you the legal framework to back up the why question.

On the books front I prefer the Bloomsbury annuals to Tolleys. Its £276 for 4400 pages which is much cheaper than buying the annuals individually. I've glanced through some old copies but cannot yet justify buying them. When I can those are the one's that I would go for over the Tolleys.

See here for an example of what you get (8 paperback annuals plus the whole lot on CD) : www.amazon.co.uk/Core-Tax-Annuals-2015-16/dp/1780437781/ref=sr_1_14

abacus12345 · Guru

Good link regarding the books. Whilst a student of Tolleys you can get the full set of orange and yellow for circa £80 - afterwards they aren't so cheap. To me, the why is why incorporate - the how is performing the change over. Whether that be the technical side, or the theory / legal side. I agree that the qualifications say, more than show, however, ATT are the practical tax people (Their words) so I'd expect, rightly, or wrongly, that they'd at least cover 'some' HMRC form filling, together will other technical issues. Now I understand why ACCA doesn't, you are supposed to learn the how (forms etc) whilst training towards your membership status - ATT / ICB / IAB should, in my opinion include elements of form filling, working papers etc etc into their syllabus as there is no 'strict' ruling in gaining membership to their institutes. Thanks

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Johnny,

the ATT's exams like the ACCA's do not require you to fill out forms but rather to understand the principle behind the questions.

ICB and IAB may include elements of form filling. Certainly the ICBs self assessment qualification uses the pracical form filling side.

You can see some old ATT papers here : www.att.org.uk/students/current-students/examinations/past-exam-papers

See what I mean? Much simpler than the ACCA papers but the same sort of way of answering questions which is nothing to do with filling in forms.

p.s. I would not put ATT in the same sentence as those other two. In the tree heirarchy of qualifications I would put it at the same level as AAT.

abacus12345 · Guru

Without studying, and sitting both its difficult to say. I'm not saying ATT is like ICB / IAB lol - it was more inline with, and comparing against entry to ACCA membership. ATT is above AAT in terms of what it sets out to achieve. Then again AAT is more general, than specific.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

abacus12345 wrote:
Without studying, and sitting both its difficult to say.

I'm a bit confused Johnny. Cos you said earlier that ACCA was falling short compared to ATT, but I understood you haven't done either. Of course if someone has comprehensively reviewed the syllabus and training material of it then it's possible of course, but I'm been feeling an ACCA bashing by you in the last couple of days, or so it seemed to me. Hope all is well and you haven't given up on that just yet!!!

Did did you have your delayed test thing today ? How did it go after all your practising? I just bored myself silly with sage again today.

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Thanks!

abacus12345 · Guru

RE: Keeping up to date

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

David Ballantyne wrote:
Hi Shaun,
Just wanted to thank you for your excellent, comprehensive answers to the original poster's question and to my question. Really helpful!
David.

no problem at all David, always really glad to help.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

abacus12345 wrote:
Yes just thank Shaun. I mean it's not as if anyone else has bothered to answer any questions in this thread is it.

Come on Johnny, was there any need for that. David was thanking me for a direct response to him about something that I have a lot of knowledge about from personal experience.

There was no insult to anyone in there.

I regard David as a long standing personal freind who I have for several years now had an ongoing Cima vs ACCA discussion where site members will from freindly rivalry have picked up on strengths in both qualifications from those who have suffered their respective exams. Had David posted some CIMA guidance in this thread I would have thanked him in exactly the same manner as he thanked me.

There are posts from some site members where your response would have been appropriate but please be assured that this reply from David was not one of them.

abacus12345 · Guru

Hi Joanne - Yes it is Monday, thanks :) I'm not bashing ACCA, I've said more than once it is the best qualification - not much use if you aren't able to be a member - considering most on here are self employed...similar to, but not the same as rarely, if ever suggesting ICAEW. The Q on ATT V ACCA incorporation is based on what ACCA study texts I have, and reading through the ATT syllabus. It was a genuine question, this is why I wanted to know if Kaplan supply more details in their texts. Reason being, incorporation isn't a small area - as we know. To add to that, I would have thought ACCA, especially P6 would have it covered, as ATT seems to in its corporate tax paper.

abacus12345 · Guru

I disagree (politely) and I'll leave it at that.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

I can see where Johnny was coming from and after having been on the receiving end of it a few times myself I get where he is coming from. But I also see what Shaun means and do understand the nature of his and David's forum 'relationship' as I've seen a few discussions between them over the years. Plus from what I've seen of David I think he wouldn't have wanted to upset someone.

We all rush replies sometimes without thinking how others would react, actually it's often hard to know how others would react. Sometimes it depends on our mood how we read things. As you all know it's generally just the bloody cheeky business owners on this site that get me, rather than the ones we should really he swapping info with.

Keep smiling peeps.

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

abacus12345 wrote:
Yes just thank Shaun. I mean it's not as if anyone else has bothered to answer any questions in this thread is it.

Apologies Johnny,

Thank you for your early reply to my query.

The reason I thanked Shaun is that he gave a highly targeted, detailed, comprehensive reponse to my query (as he usually does when anyone posts a question on the forum).

Anyway, with Shaun saying that that I am "a long standing personal friend", I'm now feeling that warm, squirming embarrassment of being identified as teacher's pet (that's just a bit of humour, I'm not actually upset!)

And to anyone else I have not thanked directly, "Thank You".

David.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

David Ballantyne wrote:
abacus12345 wrote:
Yes just thank Shaun. I mean it's not as if anyone else has bothered to answer any questions in this thread is it.
Apologies Johnny,
Thank you for your early reply to my query.
The reason I thanked Shaun is that he gave a highly targeted, detailed, comprehensive reponse to my query (as he usually does when anyone posts a question on the forum).
Anyway, with Shaun saying that that I am "a long standing personal friend", I'm now feeling that warm, squirming embarrassment of being identified as teacher's pet (that's just a bit of humour, I'm not actually upset!)
And to anyone else I have not thanked directly, "Thank You".
David.

Hey!!!! Usurper!! I thought I was teachers pet! lol biggrin biggrin biggrin