Having never studied payroll I've been left to play with Moneysoft and HMRC guidance.
Now firstly I've of the opinion that a payroll system should always be in place.
1)A director has taken no salary this month, a Nil RTI submission should be made.
2)If a director, or an employee is reimbursed for any expenses made, on behalf of the company, the reimbursement goes through the payroll?
3)Should a director, or an employee be given the use of a laptop for instance, to be used for personal gain - this can be reported through payroll / Moneysoft? - If a director fills in a SA form, is this an obvious, report on one or the other situations?
Thank you :)
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
1. If a payroll is in place, yes. From the 5th of each month there will be an option to submit an EPS, which basically tells HMRC that the Director hasn't been paid in the tax month just gone.
2. Presumably you mean mileage claims and purchases made on behalf of the Company? If regular I would pay monthly separate to the Payroll and insist that receipts for purchases are attached. If one offs I would just reimburse on receipt of receipt.
3. Used to be report through P11D, but the rules changed in April 2016
Ok, so ineffect, if there is a BIK of £1200 - you add, if employee is paid monthly, £100 onto of their gross each month. Then (if needs be) adds this 'new' figure into their SA, and calculates as usual? Why has it not always been like that?
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
1. If a payroll is in place, yes. From the 5th of each month there will be an option to submit an EPS, which basically tells HMRC that the Director hasn't been paid in the tax month just gone.
-- Edited by Leger on Monday 6th of June 2016 04:39:42 PM
So John - If there are, within the company, a director, and a worker;
There is no need to submit a EPS as the 'worker' will be included in the FPS, the director will not as he hasn't received any payment.
If there is no 'worker' just the director, you will submit a EPS as an oppose to a FPS, where there is no pay, nor taxes due for the director??
In essence, a EPS is submitted if there is no FPS - Am I on the right lines?
Thanks
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
I may have misled you slightly as I thought you were referring to a sole Director. An EPS will only be submitted if no one has been paid. If employees have been paid but the Director hasn't then the Director will go on the FPS as not being paid, no need for a separate EPS Exactly the same situation if Director was paid and employee wasn't.
In answer to your BIK question I haven't dealt with any on the new system yet, although in my opinion the rules are daft if you haven't done the payroll BIK from the beginning of the year, and want to payroll the benefit informally.
Just had a play on Moneysoft and it adds it to the gross year to date so monthly pay is (say) £1000 it shows gross to date as £1100 There are two extra lines showing payrolled benefit one on the monthly calculation at the bottom and one on the ytd.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Hey. Thanks John. I've also been playing with MS - Yes I follow, the payrolling must be up and running before the 6th of April (as to what I've read up to yet) I assume a Director is able to use the scheme (being an employee...) How will these figures transpire to a SA? Will there be, under 'Taxed at source' PAYE, followed by Deducted under payrolling? Guess I'll have to have a read of a new SA form, as surely there will be provisions for this?
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
I don't think it needs to go on the SA as such, Johnny. P60 would show £13200 gross to date tax £438 and these would transfer over to the SA on the employment page.
Happy to be corrected on that though.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Hi John. So are we saying - if payrolling just enter on SA 'new' grossed up salary together with tax deducted, leaving the car BIK empty? If not payrolling enter details from P11D? Thanks
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
But then a laptop would incur class 1 Nic, but a car class 1a, less there is private fuel, then class 1 too...So I'm assuming MS is able to differentiate between the two, for instance when the salary is grossed up. Time for coffee....I'm not saying what I'm typing is correct btw - I've probably just re-written the rule book :)
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
At present the details that are entered on a P11D are also declared on the SA, but I assume its the P11D that takes precedence, as that is what is used to assess the correct tax code. I can't magine there would be any need to enter these details in the 2016-17 SA unless benefits havent been payrolled. Like you say, we will have to wait for the new form after next April.
Interestingly enough, in MS there is a section for class 1A and without 1A, but as you say, what if it attracts class 1? May need a bit more digging that one lol.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Hey John. Yes, I 'assume' there will be a new section to SA, enter X if not payrolled..Id imagine MS have the Nic situation covered, one to look out for though! Whilst playing with MS, upon the section where you can add expenses, first I tried car, this picked up 1a, performed a sale of laptop, this landed correctly on employees p11d with no obvious year end 1a for employer. Also with the payrolled box ticked all produced the correct year end figures, for car. I understand to pay through payrolling, HMRC must be informed before the 6th of April each year. I wonder if this will become automatic in the future, just click an online box sort of thing?
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
I thought payroll was supposed to be a 5 minute job - I've been lied to :)
Ha - who told you that one?!!!!!!!!!!! It is mostly, but you never know when someone will throw a spanner in the works. Additional reading - employment law, as bosses often want to break the rules and regs and you can often get into arguments with them. CIPP, which I guess you are avoiding. This forum, lol. ACAS website (well some of it anyway!)
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I've often read, it is quicker processing payroll than it is turning the computer on! HA!
Yeah I had a look at CIPP - Nice price! I'm trying to not spend any cash at the moment on courses. Especially payroll.
Reason being, there have been more than a couple of changes recently and i'm not sure if the printed media is up to speed yet - Off the top of my head there is auto enrolment, and payrolling. Two extremely important aspects.
The bulk is within HMRC guidance, it is the technical side I'd like to see. Then again, playing with MS helps.
:)
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
If an employee pays CSA out of his wages is it standard to create a CSA nominal? Sticking it in the BS? Same with other deductions similar to that? I know it isn't a business expense, hence B/S I'm just humming about entries.
With the employers allowance, ignoring the current misunderstandings - what entries do you create?
Thank you :)
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Johnny - Owner of an overly-active keyboard.
A man who can read, yet doesn't, is in no way wiser than a man who can't.
Yeah just sort of general deductions - CSA - court orders etc etc.
The last I read about employers allowance HMRC hadn't made their minds up on who could, and who couldn't have it.
:)
If the deduction is to pay a 3rd party as you've indicated, then include that in your payroll journal and post to creditors ( I would give it it's own nominal code.) Once youv'e paid (say) CSA that nominal should be zero.
HMRC have made up their mind, no employers allowance unless there is an employee or 2nd Director over the secondary threshold. Some people have decided HMRC are wrong and are ignoring their interpretation. It will have to be decided at tribunal if HMRC query someone who has ignored their "wonderful advice"
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
