TopMarks wrote:

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  I have used Sage before although just for one company and it seems very dated.

 

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Mustve been a very old one - gave me a right old giggle that. The market leader being dated.  Mind - if you think that you really not like the look of the one John has suggested  - VT im mean.  Looks ancient, but dont write it off - its a good bit of kit and lots of Accountants use it to produce the final accounts, even when clients and bookkeepers use other software (including sage occasionally)

So whats your background Katie (we do usually ask) - what prof body, which exams done and dusted/qualifications, what do you do now/pre going it alone.  You say bookkeeper but sounds like you are into the Accountancy territory if you are doing self employed as they will want bookkeeping (if there is any)/tax advise/accounts production and self assessment. 

Whereabouts in Devon are you?  Only as as we have a few on here from that area.

Me too, and the only reason I dropped it was because I had to pay extra for CIS.

But I much prefer Moneysoft, and it would be very hard to change to something else now, even if they were cheaper.

I very nearly moved to some accounts production software, after being seduced into it by a rather nice asian lady from Manchester.  Unfortunately I couldn't warrant the cost based on the amount of Ltds I do, so didn't go for it in the end.

It was a couple of months later that I read they had sold out to the big company you didn't mention   so breathed a sigh of relief.

Slightly before my time when the sale happened.   The guys name was Tom, and I have seen him post.  The one query I had with 12pay was dealt with speedily by Tom, who was very hands on.

I used VT accounts for one year, but currently I'm using Taxfiler.  I can import the trial balance from VT+  and the layout isn't bad, but I think VT accounts as the slight edge over it.  However I can't submit using VT accounts, whereas taxfiler lets me do both.

Hi Gareth, welcome to the forum

Can I ask yhy Xero? What the benefits of Xero over any other cloud software.

And for a bookkeeper or accountant, the benefits of Xero over desktop software.

The biggest disadvantage is price.  It adds an extra £240 + VAT to a clients accounting costs.  Yes, you get a few bells and whistles, but unless the client knows how to categorise properly (many don't, nor should they be expected to)  until the bookkeeper/accountant has finalised that particular period accounting records the info they receive from their app will be no more than a guide.

With Xero pushing misinformation like 86% of businesses surveyed embraced the cloud and 55% of businesses believe they wont need an accountant thanks to the cloud, I remain sceptical (or should that be skeptical I'm never sure of the correct spelling)

for anyone who listens to the radio stations on GTA V one of the adverts is for Cloud computing.

Enjoy (especially for you Vince )

On a more serious note another vote here for VT Transaction+. Desktop software that assumes that those using it know what they are doing and doesn't charge you extra if you have more than one client. Whats not to love!

"Benefits of Xero over desktop are

1. Automatic bank feeds so you dont need to input bank transactions"

If the bank can provide a CSV file - which most can AFAIK (and for any that can't, they need to get developers who have moved beyong GCSE level) - then this can be done with desktop software.

You'll need something to parse the file first, to identify which "rule" (filter) to apply to each, but that's all the cloud stuff is doing - the extra something is already written by its developers. The developers of any desktop offering could do this as well in the next version(s) of their software if they haven't already - the coffee just needs to be smelt.

And then there are people like me, who could easily write something to sit between what I can get from banks, and what I use - but I can't be arsed, because the time saving when compared with my inputting speed on a decent user interface isn't that much. (And it would be better *in* the accounts software, because that could more quickly deal with transactions entered already/another way).

Just because (it may be that) no desktop software does it at the moment, doesn't mean it can't - it can, if the developers get their heads out of their arses.

(The real problem may be that the developers aren't doing it because manglement are becoming obsessed with cloud and migrating their customers to it, things that could be done on or added to the desktop software to compete simply aren't.)

"2. Cash coding in Xero where you can buik code bank transactions in Xero"

I'm struggling to parse that.

A benefit of Xero over desktop are that you can do something in Xero to transactions in Xero. Clearly, you can't do something in desktop software with transactions in Xero.

*scratches head*

"3. Setting up rules in Xero so where a transaction meets a set rule you can automatically code"

Is that not related to #1?

Or is it like in VT where as you start keying a transaction it recognises similar previous transactions so you can quickly select one to apply the same coding etc to this one?

Or is it like in Sage, where a supplier (or customer) record has a number of defaults associated with it. When you select that supplier when inputting an invoice, unless you override it, it will follow the 'rules' (settings) for that supplier.

But even if you mean something different, the same thing applies here as with #1 - desktop software could do the same if the programmers added the ability (and newer versions than I have might very well do so). If they don't, it isn't because it isn't possible, only that there is coffee that needs to be smelt by the right people.

"4. Real time access and more than one person can be logged in at time so I can be in my office and client can be logged in at their office and we can talk about the same issue on Xero."

This, yes, is an advantage - of cloud over desktop, rather than just Xero over desktop, fanboi!

However, it is possible to achieve a similar end with desktop software, depending on the technical abilities of people like us - and/or whether we can find someone to do the hard bit for us.

If the software has a good range of reporting and exporting facilities, it's perfectly possible to set up a system whereby the exported reports are converted to html and uploaded to a suitable location online - such as behind a secure log-in on your website. Then it's a matter of exporting those reports at appropriate times which, depending on the client and how often you do any work for them, might be once per month, once per week, whatever.

And, ironically, once of the clients that I myself do something like that for (though only in a small way)... uses a cloud-based accounts package.

"5. No issues like before of passing back and forward backups at year end."

I've never found this an issue. Have I been doing it wrong? (This kind of smacks, therefore, of the point I made in the other thread about Receipt Bank's comparison of the Receipt Bank Way with the Old Way - where the old way involves a spreadsheet, and not proper accounts software).

The key thing that makes it not an issue for me is the "back" part. I pass a backup to the accountants that do the year end. There's no passing back involved: They deal with the year end accounts, and send me a closing trial balance. End of.

I know that some companies do it more awkwardly: They send a back up and then stop doing any bookkeeping, until the accountant sends back an updated version, that matches the year end - but not on my watch. Any company I take on that does that no longer has to do it when I take them on.

"6. Can link with invoice processing software such as receipt bank or autoentry where purchase invoices/receipts can be scanned, photo take on smart phone, emailled in then can be pushed through to the software coded up, described and allocated for net and VAT together with picture of invoice attached to transaction so no need to keep paper copies any more."

Receipt Bank (and presumably others of their ilk) can provide CSV files - so we're back to #1 yet again, this time with the file source being these types of company rather than the bank.

So, again, it's a case of can be done on the desktop, but if the software can't (yet) do it, it's down to a good dose of coffee sniffing being needed by the developers.

And/or a good kicking for the manglement if they're kiboshing such developments.

In summary, please try to remember this key point: What cloud software can do, so can desktop software if the programmers add those facilities. *Both* cloud and desktop solutions are just programs running on computers, the only difference is where those computers are located.

Hi Vince, I did write a long reply to Mark's post but then clicked off it without saving, but you covered a fair bit of what I said much better anyway.  But your particular point here is one of the main bugbears I have with the way cloud accounting  is promoted.  The client is told that it's the Holy Grail and all they have to do is point and scan, and the software will do the rest, including forming a neat end of year tax return, and bobs your uncle!

Well, theres an old adage siso which I'm sure you know  but basically, if you enter it wrong, the software will calculate it wrong.  That's not the fault of the client, because they're not trained to do proper bookkeeping and accounting, but the software companies, and accountants with a vested interest, are the ones pushing that mantra. 

If time is spent correcting errors, then it loses the advantage of speed.