A quick introduction, I am in my fifties and was recently made redundant from a long serving position with a hedge fund. I rose to director of operations, but the holding company closed the organisation following losses sustained following the financial meltdown in 2008 (hedge funds take a long time to sort out). I have found it impossible to secure a new position, and besides I like the idea of being a self employed bookkeeper and accountant. I have decades of experience in accounting and finance, my weakness being computerised packages, but that can be resolved with some work. I also recently did the accounts and VAT of a sole trader whose accountant had prepared records I did not like the look of, and this was vindicated by the refunds gained in VAT and tax I secured after re-doing his financial statements.,
The problem I have is how to proceed. I should state here that this post only reflects my own experiences, it is not a condemnation. I cannot see any way of describing my situation without naming the organisation involved.
Back in the summer, after some research I decided to go for the ICB qualifications to level 4, although starting to look for business after passing level 3 (sole traders and partnerships only). I passed levels 2 and 3 within three months, both with distinction, and it is here the problems started. ICB have acted in a very unprofessional manner following my exam passes. I won't go into the details here, but suffice to say I was astonished at their attitude and behaviour, I have absolutely no confidence whatsoever in their professionalism, and have resigned my membership. I should add that following some research and calls to both IAB and AAT, I am even more dismayed at the lack of surprise at my experience from these other bodies.
I have spent some time looking into my options, and am now totally confused as to the best way forward. I can get exemption from IAB and also levels 1 and 2 AAT. I want to do the bookkeeping and accounts of small businesses, I have little interest in on-site work with larger organisations, but I do want to be able to have small limited companies as clients if at all possible. I need to learn more about taxation, although I could farm that work out, but I am competent to handle VAT for SMEs. I should add that my real expertise is incomplete records, give me the bin bags of paper and I can get on with it pretty well.
I see my options as follows:
Go with IAB, do self assessment and get started on setting up a website and looking for clients to do bookkeeping, accounts and VAT (I have no payroll experience or qualifications).
Go with AAT, do their level 3 and possibly level 4, whilst obtaining their new bookkeeping licence, although this would limit me to trial balance and no further, which is not what I want, and is below my competence level.
AAT is, as far as I can tell, by far the more recognised body, but as I have no wish to be an employee, do I really need to go with them, incurring additional expense and having to wait to look for clients? I can also go with IAB, but also attempt AAT levels 3 and 4, using the IAB backing until AAT qualification.
As I have had one bad experience, I do not want another, and want the best way to get clients on board, and begin to get a network going.
AAT is, as far as I can tell, by far the more recognised body, but as I have no wish to be an employee, do I really need to go with them, incurring additional expense and having to wait to look for clients? I can also go with IAB, but also attempt AAT levels 3 and 4, using the IAB backing until AAT qualification.
As I have had one bad experience, I do not want another, and want the best way to get clients on board, and begin to get a network going.
Any advice would be very gratefully received.
Thank you.
Hi Stephen
A definite vote here for AAT Accounting and get MAAT MIP, but suggest you don't bother with the bookkeeping qualification.
You can carry on offering your services in the meantime as long as you don't mention AAT and, once qualified, you are on the bottom rung of the accountancy ladder.
Just remember to have MLR through through HMRC.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Hi Stephen
I think the decision you need to make is what exactly you wish to do with your new career, because (and it may just be the way your post is written) it seems that you have not quite decided what your business model is going to be. Ie - do you just produce up to Trial Balance and then farm out the Tax work or be a fully qualified Accountant.
It seems to me that you have been misled in your reading up that AAT is geared solely to being an employee.
To clear up a few things.
Yes - Ive heard some horror stories about ICB and from what you say there will be a fair few on here who are not surprised. Although there are also a fair few on here who practice under their banner and have had no issues. Im not a fan of how the ICB themselves operate.
The ICB qualification does not give you any credits towards studying the AAT.
Level 1 AAT is for school-leavers or people who have had no life experience.
Level 2 AAT is entry level.
If you already have the basics with the ICB which you indicate then whilst you will not be awarded any credit for this by the AAT as such it should mean you can skip this level. An easy way to find out is to do their skills test on their website which will then indicate at what level you need to start. Print that off and hand it over to your training provider.
AAT Level 4 will provide some coverage in personal and business tax which will help you to complete the books beyond Trial Balance, so would suggest you do levels 3 and 4.
Yes their AATQB qualification is restrictive, but for a reason as there a lot of eg level 2 students out there who suddenly think because they are a member that they can suddenly set up shop as a bookkeeper and be able to do the job! BUT, you do not need to actually get that particular licence, you can practice without. Bizarrely!
Currently the Accountancy is not a protected profession although there have been moves to protect it in the past and there will be again (indeed am wondering if the introduction of this new qualification and its restrictions will be to aid such a more successful move in future, whilst obviously impacting on the ICB market (!) but for now its not). So you can practice without their licence as long as you make absolutely no reference to the AAT as you do so. Pass level 4 and then go for your MAAT MIP (member in practice). This you will find will open more doors from you in terms of getting work from other Accountants.
You mention your competence level. When you state this - can you expand. Im getting the impression that you consider certain aspects of the role may be beneath you - again maybe just the way Im reading this. Or is it more related to the fact that you got to certain heights within your previous profession and wish to do the same with this new one, sooner rather than later. Or do you relate this to your background and general knowledge/abilities or have you actually had some technical training with regards to producing accounts, tax computations, accounting standards (GAPP/FRS) and the like? I only ask as the day to day reality is that things are not always as simple as they seem in this industry. I often tell people not to run before they can walk, but also not to rush into a qualification that will only give them want they want/need in the short term but to aim for what they want/need to achieve in the longer term. As you will now - sometimes that longer term planning route can actually provide results much quicker than anticipated. But jumping from one thing to another just causes frustration, waste of cash and time.
So - my next question - do you want to stop at AAT level or would you want to go on for Chartered Accountancy status?
As John says, make sure you get MLR immediately. If you have already completed the books for someone without it you are breaking the law and the consequences are serious (large fines/2 years in prison!)
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Joanne, ICB level 3 gives exemption up to but not including AAT Advanced Accounting. This information I have from my conversations with AAT.
I consider nothing beneath me, everything I posted was purely for information to try and illustrate my position.
I have no desire to go for ACA, it would be a waste of time as I would be required to learn significant amounts that I would not require (auditing for example).
Joanne, ICB level 3 gives exemption up to but not including AAT Advanced Accounting. This information I have from my conversations with AAT.
I consider nothing beneath me, everything I posted was purely for information to try and illustrate my position.
I have no desire to go for ACA, it would be a waste of time as I would be required to learn significant amounts that I would not require (auditing for example).
Another vote for AAT from me.
I think that you will find the knowledge requirements to achieve level IV considerably above its competitors plus AAT is recognised by practice where the other two qualifications are generally not. You say that you do not wish to be an employee and thats fine but (a) do you really want to close off that option and (b) you do want to gather as much knowledge as possible for your new career and (c) you do want to have acquired a bit of paper that will be respected by those you may be looking for outsourced work from.
Yes AAT takes longer than the others, yes you have to jump through more burning hoops to get your letters. But think of your eventual pride in your achievement and knowledge that where others may have chosen easier (though not necessarily easy) paths you chose the one that was the best to give you a sound start in the business that you want to be a part of.
As a side note in response to the throw away line at the end of your post I would add that Audit papers with higher professional bodies are not about the mechanics of audit but rather teaching the mindset required to properly analyse a set of accounts. It concentrates upon leadership skills, analysis, ethical considerations and professional skepticism. It also requires you to have a far, far deeper knowledge of financial reporting standards than the financial reporting papers as you need to be ain a position to state whether a standard has been implemented incorrectly. Whether one goes on to use that part of the qualifiaction is almost immaterial. Certainly not an area that I would touch as far too litigious. However, my skills required to prepare accounts are I believe derived as much from my study of audit as accounting standards.
Just thought that was worth pointing out.
Finally, even though you have spoken with AAT you need to ensure that the information that you have been given is correct and you understood completely the answer as it was intended. (it can be easy at times to fill in the blanks when talking to professional bodies only to be disappointed when formalising a request). Joannes link does seem to disagree somewhat with the information that you have been given so I would confirm that from other sources. Of course, if you have found a training company that will put you in at level IV based on your existing studies thats different... But if you then dont pass the exams at the top level they could get in trouble from putting you in at too high a level.
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
The CEO of ICB spoke with me at length on Friday, and as a result of that conversation I am going to stay with ICB for now. I have tried to find other complaints about ICB elsewhere, but have seen nothing, so unless someone has examples I need to be aware of, I am satisfied that what happened to me was an error on their part that they have apologised for, and also taken steps to ensure a repetition will not occur.
However, I am convinced I need to look further into AAT, which I can study for whilst under the ICB banner. This gives me the advantage of gaining some experience (hopefully!) and getting a far better idea of what is best for me with regard to the kind of business I want to do, and what is in demand. Also of course, I will be earning income, something rather important!
To clarify, I have been told I have exemption to level 3 AAT, not level 4.
-- Edited by Phantasm on Sunday 18th of December 2016 10:28:39 AM
Wish I had known this before I posted, wouldve saved me some precious time (bombed already, even before the January madness!).
Anyhoo, just to clarify for anyone else reading this about exemptions - The ICB exemptions UP TO level 3 are the same as you would get by doing a skills check. But actually, now AAT are on the new training regime of AQA2016, it also goes slightly beyond this as the document I have enclosed shows in terms of specific modules within level 3. As Shaun says, as always get this in black and white (you do have to supply your certificates if you are going for exemption plus of course the fee) but I would try to get something over an email at the very least.
Shaun - it would appear ICB are still keeping an eye out on this site despite most of theirs being a 'closed shop'.
Stephen - there have been a few examples of people on here, other forums and indeed a few of us who have had private conversations with members, who have moved from ICB to both IAB and AAT due to being unhappy with various aspects of the ICB. But given you have the personal assurances of their CEO, sounds like you have found the most appropriate Prof Body for you. Now you can join in the January madness.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Good advice provided by the professionals and I am sorry to hear you were initially disappointed with the ICB. I know the ICB CEO and all of their staff and can only say every time I met with them I see nothing but hard working people who are passionate about the Bookkeeping Profession. It appears you have been appeased by Garry Carter which is good to know. Should you decide to go down the AAT route and were happy with the Training Provider you signed up with and they also provide AAT to stick with them as they will be aware of your capabilities and will be able to provide you with the cores of study required meaning you wont have to complete all the qualification in full. I would add if needing to contact the ICB ALWAYS do so using the telephone.
