Xero payroll - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Marky65 · Guru

Xero payroll

abacus12345 · Guru

My observations could be incorrect but I would say, at the moment at least, cloud software suits smaller businesses better than larger ones.

I'd say the best person to ask on this site is MarkS I know he is an avid user of Xero and deals with larger clients.

If you didn't need to use Xero I know people think highly of MoneySoft [amongst others].

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Admin.... Grrrrr.... Moderator if you please.

There are bodies piled in the corridors at the site I'm working with at the moment of people who thought that I also do admin tasks... Lol... Not really, the bodies are all in the recycling bins :)

Hi Mark, just joshin. No probs it being here

Hi Johnny,

we keep passing on the occassional thread but then I get whisked off to the next emergency and don't have time to follow up. Hope that you're doing well matey. I do read all the threads and still sort out the spammers. Just don't have chance to comment much.

I'm pretty sure serious companies will never use the cloud (or if they do, they won't do it for very long!). I'm with one at the moment who made the mistake of falling for the cloud sales peoples hype and I'm desperately attempting to unravel them from their dependancy as it's pretty much killing a £80m turnover company (I think only people such as Joanne and myself consider that a tiny company).

Thats the cloud companies secret weapon. The people at board level that they are selling to don't have a clue what they are buying and believe it or not there are some companies out there where the guys working in their IT departments should not be trusted with anything sharper than a crayon.

The board are hit with lines such as "Oh, are you STILL using desktop software" and "Are you willing to let yourself fall behind your competitors"... Its the sales ploys sold to lemmings. "Well, everyone else is jumping off the cliff. Do you really want to be the last one to decide to make the leap?".

I think that for anyone concentrating on bookkeeping and SME accounts there will be no choice going forwards but to work with cloud software which is one of the things making me think seriously about my own companies future direction which seems to be drifting more towards management information, business intelligence and data analysis than stat accounts and bookkeeping.

right, and on that note, back to Excel :)

all the best,

Shaun.

Marky65 · Guru

Shamus wrote:
Admin.... Grrrrr.... Moderator if you please.

There are bodies piled in the corridors at the site I'm working with at the moment of people who thought that I also do admin tasks... Lol... Not really, the bodies are all in the recycling bins :)

Hi Mark, just joshin. No probs it being here

Good morning Shaun

My sincerest apologies for the incorrect term used for your role, I sit corrected and will refrain from using such terms again :)

Pleased to see you recycling :)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Lol, I like to do my bit ;)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Sage payroll = expensive. No idea about zero/xero (gawd even in their advert they have to bloody spell it!) - I tried to look at their website - all it said was free for 6 months. Oh yeah and what about after that. Or of course you have to add your inside leg measurements to the bookkeeper/accountant bit so then you get a phone call and the sales patter to put up, so I opted for the online chat - was bounced off twice as 'no agent was available' - that was after waiting 10 minutes each time. Great service, not! Lets face it the sales/new customer service bit is usually always better than the existing customer service so that bodes well. Perhaps thats why there is nothing on here Mark?!

Why are you moving them from sage accounts to xero? What sage to they have?

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Shamus wrote:
£80m turnover company (I think only people such as Joanne and myself consider that a tiny company).

Positively miniscule!!!!!

abacus12345 · Guru

Hi Shaun,

I'm very well thank you, hope you're well too.

I wouldn't mind a few £80,000,000 clients!!

VinceH · Expert

"No idea about zero/xero (gawd even in their advert they have to bloody spell it!)"

Hmm. I have a pet hate about deliberately misspelt company names - to the extent that I will not use companies like Kwik Fit or Kwik Save. I even have a client with a stupid spelling in their name and I've told them that if I ever need the type of work they offer, I will not use them because of it.

If you play on the English language like that and misspell your name, and therefore need to spell it out in advertising to avoid people going to the wrong place - particularly in this modern web-dominated age, and most especially if your website IS the key part of your business - then you have a bloody stupid name.

That same client I mentioned once ran a radio advertising campaign in which they gave out their website address - but neglected to spell out their deliberate misspelling in the advert. That was the first thing I pointed out to them when I heard the advert. It hadn't even occurred to them. :/

"I tried to look at their website - all it said was free for 6 months. Oh yeah and what about after that."

Am I missing something? It seems to mention it in the pricing for the main product - for all three tiers on their pricing page it says "Payroll: Add up to 5 payroll employees for free for six months (£5/Mo thereafter), plus £1/mo for each additional person, to a max of 200"

So basically, it's £1 per employee per month, up to a maximum of 200. (And a minimum of £5)

Edit: Added the mininum

-- Edited by VinceH on Monday 13th of March 2017 06:23:14 PM

Leger · Master Book-keeper

VinceH wrote:
"No idea about zero/xero (gawd even in their advert they have to bloody spell it!)"
Hmm. I have a pet hate about deliberately misspelt company names - to the extent that I will not use companies like Kwik Fit or Kwik Save.

I refuse to use Kwik Fit because they're very expensive. I was going to say you would have trouble finding a Kwik Save because they went bust in 2007, but apparently the brand name was bought by Costcutter in 2012 and is used on a handful of stores

Nice to see you back Shaun, even if only for a brief appearance

-- Edited by Leger on Monday 13th of March 2017 05:45:10 PM

VinceH · Expert

Unless it passed directly under my radar at the time, I wouldn't have noticed Kwik Save going bust - because if it's my policy to not use them, I'd have no reason to look out for them or news about them. :)

I'd like to think their demise was the result of huge swathes of the population following my lead and refusing to do business with a spelling mistake - but it's probably not.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Leger wrote:
VinceH wrote:
"No idea about zero/xero (gawd even in their advert they have to bloody spell it!)"
Hmm. I have a pet hate about deliberately misspelt company names - to the extent that I will not use companies like Kwik Fit or Kwik Save.
I refuse to use Kwik Fit because they're very expensive. I was going to say you would have trouble finding a Kwik Save because they went bust in 2007, but apparently the brand name was bought by Costcutter in 2012 and is used on a handful of stores

Nice to see you back Shaun, even if only for a brief appearance

-- Edited by Leger on Monday 13th of March 2017 05:45:10 PM

Cheers John,

I'm around every day to keep an eye out for the miscreants who keep trying to use the site as an advertising medium but just not able to post much due to sheer volume of work at the moment. (Which is unfortunately not the sort of work that I can fix just by throwing more bodies at it).

On the Kwik Fit from they shot themselves in the foot with me. I used to do a lot of miles per year (100k+) so regularly needed to get my tyres changed. First change on a Rover 75 that I had and quite shockeed at £175 per tyre even when buying four but sucked it up as needed good tyres and they're pretty chunky on those things.

Less than 40 miles later I have a blow out of one of said new tyres on the motorway. Get her onto the hard shoulder trashing what was left of the tyre in the process.

Change tyre, off back to Kwik fit (Cannock branch) only to get the speel that it was obviously a puncture, nothing to do with the tyre or the fitting.... A puncture... In a rear tyre... Shouldn't it have been a front tyre if I went over something.

Shredded tyre with all manner of detritus picked up between the fast lane and coming to a stop on the hard shoulder embedded in it gets sent back to Pirelli who say more or less the same.... Sure there wasn't enough of the tyre left for them to come to that epiphany but thats the conclusion they reached.

Now, I know that punctures happen but a rear tyre 40 miles after having it changed... I think not. It was either a faulty tyre or faulty fitting. The service that I got from both was abysmal so I've never bought another Pirelli from anywhere or used Kwik fit ever again. Considering the mileage factor I would say that they've both lost in the region of £25k from me since 2004... All for a £175 tyre (retail, not what it costs them) so I think that maybe National Tyres in Cannock and Goodyear should both send them Christmas cards as the money all went to them instead.

All the best matey.

Marky65 · Guru

Cheshire wrote:
Sage payroll = expensive. No idea about zero/xero (gawd even in their advert they have to bloody spell it!) - I tried to look at their website - all it said was free for 6 months. Oh yeah and what about after that. Or of course you have to add your inside leg measurements to the bookkeeper/accountant bit so then you get a phone call and the sales patter to put up, so I opted for the online chat - was bounced off twice as 'no agent was available' - that was after waiting 10 minutes each time. Great service, not! Lets face it the sales/new customer service bit is usually always better than the existing customer service so that bodes well. Perhaps thats why there is nothing on here Mark?!

Why are you moving them from sage accounts to xero? What sage to they have?

We are currently using Sage 2015 V21 for them

We are moving to Xero accounts because they are buying some new front of house software to integrate all of their business operations and this links directly into Xero

Your point about contacting them is one of my gripes with Xero, I know Sage is expensive but when I have a problem with it I pick up the phone and get it sorted either through instruction or remote access.

Interesting and telling that there are no comments to my question about the Xero payroll, I think that sums it up nicely.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Marky65 wrote:
Interesting and telling that there are no comments to my question about the Xero payroll, I think that sums it up nicely.

Hi Mark

Firstly it's a relatively new product, and secondly I doubt anyone here has used it to give an opinion. For those already using xero, it's probably a useful product up to say 10 employees, but then prices itself out of the market (would you pay £200 a month for 200 employees?)

I would ask the question on aweb, there's a few users on there that use xero and you will probably get a more definite opinion

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Hi Shaun

Just a quick reply as I know you're bombed but a/ Rover 75 Always wanted one but never pursued it after Rover collapsed, had 2 820's including a sterling and loved them. and b/ 100k a year. I moan cos I do 18k lol.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Quick one Mark. Will their front office stuff not integrate with sage. Am sure it will!!! Why would they move to monthly rip off fees when they have already coughed up a few for a perpetual and very recent sage? Just a thought.

Marky65 · Guru

Cheshire wrote:
Quick one Mark. Will their front office stuff not integrate with sage. Am sure it will!!! Why would they move to monthly rip off fees when they have already coughed up a few for a perpetual and very recent sage? Just a thought.

In a word, no.

I have looked at the software and spoken via online chat (no comment) to them and it won't and there is no thought of development in that direction either. For the software firm the future is in the clouds, I remain to be convinced.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Marky65 wrote:
Cheshire wrote:
Quick one Mark. Will their front office stuff not integrate with sage. Am sure it will!!! Why would they move to monthly rip off fees when they have already coughed up a few for a perpetual and very recent sage? Just a thought.
In a word, no.
I have looked at the software and spoken via online chat (no comment) to them and it won't and there is no thought of development in that direction either. For the software firm the future is in the clouds, I remain to be convinced.

Oh sorry Mark - I just picked up on your comment about the cloudy software people providing csv reports and thought that would be enough for the sage.

MGreen · Member

Marky65 wrote:
Cheshire wrote:
Quick one Mark. Will their front office stuff not integrate with sage. Am sure it will!!! Why would they move to monthly rip off fees when they have already coughed up a few for a perpetual and very recent sage? Just a thought.
In a word, no.
I have looked at the software and spoken via online chat (no comment) to them and it won't and there is no thought of development in that direction either. For the software firm the future is in the clouds, I remain to be convinced.

Love it. Why any one would think, any modern front office software (or for that matter any new technology/software) developers invest their valuable time/money to integrate with legacy/near obsolete despot products is beyond me.

Sooner you embrace cloud software the better.

Xero payroll works perfectly over 100 employees. The cost of £1 per employe per month should be levied to the customer, don't see this as an issue. I recharge at cost all such costs to the customers (clearly identifying them), and they have no problem paying. If they can't afford it, there are plenty of £10 per hour bookkeepers they can go to, I would not have them as customers. They nearly always come back!

Besides Xero seamlessly connects to HMRC/Major AE providers, and no journals to do (if using external payroll software). No payslips to print.

Like someone in another thread said "Sage should just go away and die", despot (pun intended for Desktop) software companies such as Sage and VT should just die and go away, and I pray it should happen sooner rather than later.

There is not a single major accounting software company that is investing heavily in despot accounting software, that should tell you something. Don't be swayed by what is fast becoming a minority of despot software users.

Marky65 · Guru

MGreen wrote:
Love it. Why any one would think, any modern front office software (or for that matter any new technology/software) developers invest their valuable time/money to integrate with legacy/near obsolete despot products is beyond me.
Sooner you embrace cloud software the better.
Xero payroll works perfectly over 100 employees. The cost of £1 per employe per month should be levied to the customer, don't see this as an issue. I recharge at cost all such costs to the customers (clearly identifying them), and they have no problem paying. If they can't afford it, there are plenty of £10 per hour bookkeepers they can go to, I would not have them as customers. They nearly always come back!
Besides Xero seamlessly connects to HMRC/Major AE providers, and no journals to do (if using external payroll software). No payslips to print.
Like someone in another thread said "Sage should just go away and die", despot (pun intended for Desktop) software companies such as Sage and VT should just die and go away, and I pray it should happen sooner rather than later.
There is not a single major accounting software company that is investing heavily in despot accounting software, that should tell you something. Don't be swayed by what is fast becoming a minority of despot software users.

Thank you for your enlightened view MGreen, whoever you are.

I am so pleased that you and your clients don't see the cost of £1.00 per employee plus whatever else you charge for your fantastic service as restrictive.

VinceH · Expert

MGreen is just a troll who pops up now and again to say how wonderful his cloud-gods are and tell those of us who disagree how wrong we are. In this particular case, he's throwing in some FUD about desktop software for good measure.

Best ignored.

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

VinceH wrote:
MGreen is just a troll who pops up now and again to say how wonderful his cloud-gods are and tell those of us who disagree how wrong we are. In this particular case, he's throwing in some FUD about desktop software for good measure.

Best ignored.

I see I wasn't the only one suppressing a LOL at the idea that a payroll provider would happily pay £1/employee/month for a significant sized payroll and that clients would be daft enough to let that cost be charged on.

Look at it this way; A quite small bureau processing for 500 employees across its clients would be paying £6000/year for software when much better software can be had from Brightpay/Moneysoft/12Pay (Oh No! Desktop Providers!) for under £200/year to service the same client base.

And when I say that the currently available desktop offerings are better I mean that they are specifically easier, quicker, more functional, with a more pleasant and responsive user interface. All for a small fraction of the cost of the cloud solution.

Users begging for cloud solutions are few and far between. The drive for the Cloud comes almost entirely from the software suppliers, and the reasons why software providers are so keen to offer them are very clear; control of their user base, and vastly increased revenues.

-- Edited by Tom McClelland on Saturday 18th of March 2017 01:43:18 PM

Leger · Master Book-keeper

MGreen wrote:

Love it. Why any one would think, any modern front office software (or for that matter any new technology/software) developers invest their valuable time/money to integrate with legacy/near obsolete despot products is beyond me.
You're back. Fancy a civilised debate this time?
Sooner you embrace cloud software the better.
Why? Cloud software has it's purpose and I'm not averse to using it, in fact I've just been looking at Capium and although I'm not ready to take the plunge yet it looks a nifty bit of kit. What I won't be doing is throwing myself completely into the cloud. You've been fed the lie that Cloud is the Holy Grail. It isn't.
Xero payroll works perfectly over 100 employees. The cost of £1 per employe per month should be levied to the customer, don't see this as an issue. I recharge at cost all such costs to the customers (clearly identifying them), and they have no problem paying. If they can't afford it, there are plenty of £10 per hour bookkeepers they can go to, I would not have them as customers. They nearly always come back!
You'd be hard pushed to beat Moneysoft or Brightpay for capability. £100 a month for running payroll? (I agree that's a client cost) anyone willing to pay that needs their head examining - seriously. I thought the role of an accountant was to save their client money? Capium provides the same functionality for £180 a year and Moneysoft and Brightpay for less than £150 a year.
Besides Xero seamlessly connects to HMRC/Major AE providers, and no journals to do (if using external payroll software). No payslips to print.
Xero is not special in this respect and Capium provides exactly the same functionality at 15% of the cost. And how long does a journal take for goodness sake. Mine is pre-populated and takes less than a minute.
Like someone in another thread said "Sage should just go away and die", despot (pun intended for Desktop) software companies such as Sage and VT should just die and go away, and I pray it should happen sooner rather than later.
Why? I have no issue with you wanting to embrace cloud software, and each to their own. VT will be around for a long time and is my software of choice. I am happy to service those clients who want to use the cloud and they will be offered a free or paid for option but I've absolutely no desire to ram something down their throat at an expense they don't need. Accepted that my clients are micro businesses, but ANY business spending money unnessarily is a stupid thing to do, in my opinion. If the software saves them money then fair dinkum. I'm not convinced it does.
There is not a single major accounting software company that is investing heavily in despot accounting software, that should tell you something. Don't be swayed by what is fast becoming a minority of despot software users.
I'd dare to say Sage is, probably not as heavy as they used to but other than the totally rubbish sage one, I haven't seen sage rushing to embrace the cloud. Quickbooks have long wanted to throw the towel in on their desktop software and it looks like their 2017 version will be the last, and VT will carry on regardless in my opinion. If what you said was true, they'd hardly be wanting to make it MTD compliant , would they?
VT will be MTD compliant, and as I've already said, is my software of choice. I'm looking forward to picking new clients up when those that have been fed the cloud mantra mess it up and I can then sort out that mess for a fee.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Don't you love it when you get quoted out of context!

In true news of the world fashion M Green takes a line about Sage cold calling in the midle of January and turns that into a quote about their software.

I am unfortunately working with cloud based solutions at the moment as the clients management who arer business, not technical people stupidly fell for the sales pitch.... It's killing the company. It may not be completely the fault of the software itself but rather access to it via what we are assured is as good as it gets cable broadband but still the software existing in the ether rather than on the machine causes regular (we're talking multiple times per day) data corruption, freezes, crashes, innability to access your data, etc.

Now, if only there was a solution to that... Such as taking everything out of the cloud and putting on a desktop computer!.... Oh, wait, yes there is...

Another vote here for VT and 12pay as the best solutions for most jobs (Sage desktop solutions do win over VT I fear for box shifters and stackers who need a stock control / ERP solution).

Shaun.

Lyndsey · Senior Member

M Green is always good for an argument, the only time I have seen them on here is when they argue about the virtues of cloud.

He is the guy that went off on a post of mine a while ago that I am living in the past because I use a windows PC and not a Mac (I think he suggested I was too poor to buy one...), anyhow, I am watching for suggestions as I haven't got any current payroll, but have one prospective payroll coming soon.

Thanks Lyndsey

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

Lyndsey wrote:
M Green is always good for an argument, the only time I have seen them on here is when they argue about the virtues of cloud.

He is the guy that went off on a post of mine a while ago that I am living in the past because I use a windows PC and not a Mac (I think he suggested I was too poor to buy one...), anyhow, I am watching for suggestions as I haven't got any current payroll, but have one prospective payroll coming soon.

Thanks Lyndsey

Oh how perfect. A Mac zealot too! For the Trifecta he'd have to also be convinced that LINUX is about to take over the world. I might have guessed from the silly "despot" for "desktop"; like the Mac Fans who constantly refer to Microsoft as M$ to show their club membership.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

I was out on the hunt for popcorn, but it seems there had been a run on it the day before when Marky was sitting with his feet up!

MGreen is a man who likes to twist, totally misquote ad frankly lie about what people have said before, insult people, treats his clients dreadfully by the sounds of it (fools and their cash!), is a known troll who hides behind a fake name, plus a man who mispresents the truth by total exaggeration, with his arguments never backed up by the facts/numbers. Also - for some reason he only argues back with certain people, not with (Leger) John nor If I recall correctly Vince. Actually I reckon he isnt an Accountant but a zero (my new spelling for their sofware) bod.

His last outing http://forum.bookkeepers.network/t62744677/vt-run-time-error-when-posting-in-universal-data-input/

-- Edited by Cheshire on Sunday 19th of March 2017 12:59:23 PM

VinceH · Expert

"For the Trifecta he'd have to also be convinced that LINUX is about to take over the world."

But to be convinced that this (or next) year will be "the year of Linux on the desktop"* he would have to reduce his Mac zealousness - so that would be a flawed trifecta.

So instead, I'm just going to assume that he's a creationist or a Flat Earther, or something like that.

* It won't. It'll gain a little ground, not least thanks to what Microsoft have been/are doing with Windows - but that'll fall a hell of a long way short of changing the status quo.

abacus12345 · Guru

To be fair to Apple, they make beautiful equipment which works well. It is expensive and directed more so towards those who are creatives.

For business, for ease of use with other software, Sage and VT in this case, a PC wins.

Yes you can get Windows software to work on a Mac but it involves faffing and taking away the heart and point of using a Mac.

Still, the 5k Mac looks beautiful.

Linux again is great software, but to get benefit from it you need to know a fair amount about it, it isn't idiot proof like OS and Windows.

Just my take

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

abacus12345 wrote:
To be fair to Apple, they make beautiful equipment which works well. It is expensive and directed more so towards those who are creatives.

For business, for ease of use with other software, Sage and VT in this case, a PC wins.

Yes you can get Windows software to work on a Mac but it involves faffing and taking away the heart and point of using a Mac.

Still, the 5k Mac looks beautiful.

Linux again is great software, but to get benefit from it you need to know a fair amount about it, it isn't idiot proof like OS and Windows.

Just my take

Just so. Both Mac and LINUX are wonderful in the right context, but like everything else, including MS Windows they offer a flawed compromise in the real world. If all the applications you want are available on Mac and you don't mind paying a premium for the beautiful design then go for it. If you're happy learning to be a tech administrator and you want something free then go for LINUX on a bare-bones PC. If you want to be mainstream, with a vast choice of apps/drivers/add-ons, then MS Windows on a cheap ready-to-go PC is probably the correct answer, particularly if you want to be sure of having a wide choice of desktop applications. The Fanboys of particular technical solutions who denigrate other solutions are basically just being rather childish.

It occurs to me that it is going to be fairly natural for some Apple users to denigrate desktop software and celebrate the cloud. The choice of desktop software available to run on native Mac OS is tiny compared with the choice of PC desktop software. When you have a hammer you need nails to work with, so Apple users who need applications that aren't well served in native OS are going to have to look to the cloud for answers.

-- Edited by Tom McClelland on Sunday 19th of March 2017 12:34:17 PM

abacus12345 · Guru

Totally agree.

It's (to me) similar to - who is the greatest guitarist, or who is the greatest footballer of all time, once at that world class level, it's all opinion really.

Yeah I get the fanboy sub-culture point, Mac v PC....

If you've a Mac and an equivalent PC you've some serious kit on your hands - enjoy it, use it for what it is designed for - either powerful design or serious gaming.