I have created myself a problem (when actually I thought I was being clever !)
I work in a construction company and I have PAYE people and most of them are subbys that fill out timesheets - this is all very simple and all calculated with slips on Moneysoft.
However there are a few subbies that we use that are on Invoices as they are VAT registered (as is this company)
Being clever I thought I would put these on the payroll so I can inform HMRC of the CIS liability - however then on sage I have been putting the invoice on as a supplier invoice, calculating the VAT and then putting the CIS element to a CIS bank account - it then dawned on me that when the payroll is posted this is going to look like there is more CIS deducted than what actually is - can anyone please advise?
That when you say payroll in Moneysoft that you are just using the CIS module, rather than processing them as staff
The sage CIS Bank account is overdrawn so this shows the liability due to HMRC
So then - you should just be able to net off the CIS element so that you dont show that in the PAYE nominal code in sage. When you pay it - some will be deducted from the PAYE code and some will replace funds back to the Bank.
There are easier ways.
How long have you been using the CIS Bank? Also how long have you been processing the Ltd CIS via Moneysoft?
Just wondering if they can both be re-wound via restores.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I used moneysoft manager because I run the PAYE on it and also the subcontractors that fill out timesheets on the CIS module, in my head at the time it was the same for ones that invoice due to the fact that Is the only way I report to HMRC (this sage does not have the CIS bolt on)
The bank account now shows the liability to HMRC and is overdrawn and I do not want to go any further until I have corrected it but its knowing how too, if I restore I am going to lose all the other work that has been done on sage I think I got myself confused because I was verifying them through moneysoft for the 20% tax x
There are 17 entries in the CIS bank account, this is the CIS tax on the companies invoices, they just relate to the companies these entries all the other entries are the wages and CIS journal that gets reported to HMRC and then the payments to HMRC
Processing I have verified on monesoft and entered all the invoice details and then I have gone into sage entered the supplier and all the invoice details and on payment I have paid the CIS off into the CIS bank account as I have paid the invoice in full (but now realised I have doubled the CIS because this is also accounted for in the hmrc wages journal)
The calculations are correct to their invoice and my workings out .
There are 17 entries in the CIS bank account, this is the CIS tax on the companies invoices, they just relate to the companies these entries all the other entries are the wages and CIS journal that gets reported to HMRC and then the payments to HMRC
Might be the way Im reading it - but to clarify - the ONLY thing in the CIS Bank are relating to to Limited company invoices and NOT the other wages/CIS journals?
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
So if just company ones - Backup, backup again to somewhere else, test the backups work. Then:
As I said in my first post - net off the amount 'held' in that account to PAYE/CIS tax nominal via Bank receipt. Reconcile. (Or journal if your version of sage allows for journals to be bank reconciled, as som eolder sage versions do not and Ive no idea what you are using - an idea to include that info for technical responses!)
Lose the CIS Bank (mark up as do not use).
Or (Whilst you should use the delete option with caution, in this case the CIS Bank will not have been reconciled and there is no VAT impact) delete the 17 CIS bank entries and process as below #.
Again with this scenario - lose the CIS Bank (mark up as do not use).
Next time you process an invoice (and now #), key credit note at same time but code it to the CIS tax nominal, T9. This creates a credit on the balance sheet, does not affect purchases/direct costs. When you pay the supplier, pay via the normal bank and link the payment to the credit note and invoice. This clears the supplier account to nil as it should. At least then the CIS tax account will match what you pay when you pay HMRC (and you code the right amount to that account as you do the PAYE tax and NI to their appropriate nominals.)
Job done.
Try anything new in the practice mode and always backup so you can do a restore in the main data, so you wouldnt have too much data to lose icon. Take backups every few hours if a lotof entries or at the very least each day when you come out of sage (to at least two different media!)
-- Edited by Cheshire on Thursday 25th of May 2017 05:12:44 PM
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
You haven't said, but is the construction company you work for a Limited Company? If it is, does it pay it's own CIS gross or not (that's if your company subcontracts to other companies)
-- Edited by Leger on Thursday 25th of May 2017 09:32:21 PM
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Joanne you really have been so so helpful!!
I am using Sage 50, I used to raise a credit note to a balance sheet nominal code (so I would raise the supplier invoice, and then on payment raise payment and then the credit note to clear it off then the HMRC payment would be paye code and the CIS code) but then the accountant said you should use the bank account which is what has thrown me with it
Just be careful you don't double count the CIS tax due as you pull the info from moneysoft.
The accountant isn't wrong, it's just a mater or preference and if you are happier with the credit note process stick with that one as its you doing it in a daily basis.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
As Joanne has remarked above, have you already included the CIS deducted for these Ltd Co's in the wages journal? If you have then it will double up with Joannes suggestion as well.
Joannes suggestion is (imo) the correct way to go about it as it keeps things tidier but don't include these Ltd Co transactions in your wages journal.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
