My name is Mike and I'm currently studying my AAT level 3 qualifications. I am aiming to be a cloud based bookkeeper and am looking forward to learning lots from this forum. My plan is to move to Ireland (near Belfast) in the next few years and hopefully by then I will have established a good client base and have concluded my AAT studies.
I will post a thread on the other sub-forums with a couple of quick questions if that is ok?
I actually work for Sage, although this is the sales side of the business.
I've not long started level 3 (previously passed level 2 through self study) so I'm still working through AVBK, I'm looking to book my exam in the next month or so but would like to use some cloud solutions to get used to bookkeeping with some small clients; I am conscious of not jumping in at the deep end though and creating problems for my clients and/or myself. The plan though as I've said is to spend the next couple of years building up my knowledge base however due to financial commitments I can't go down the preferred route of starting from scratch at an accountants.
-- Edited by Mike Chandler on Wednesday 13th of September 2017 11:15:53 AM
Hi again Mike In no particular order (sorry Im in a rambling mode today!).....why are you looking at cloudy software when you could surely get mates rates from the provider of one of the best bits of kit out there! I get mates rates and I dont even work there! Oh and by that I mean the Sage 50 suite! Plus have you seen the shocking state of sage one? (anyway that last comment is one that can be debated another day if you like, sorry Im not a fan).
Im just linking this to the other post http://forum.bookkeepers.network/t63929996/starting-out-what-are-the-essentials/?page=last#lastPostAnchor
OK, so with the upmost respect, you do have a fair bit to get through to get to the end of Level 3 and the AAT suggest that you finish level 3 before becoming an 'accredited' bookkeeper for a reason. Although some of the modules go past the traditional bookkeeper role which takes you up to TB, so the accounts production one you could leave for now, but I would absolutely stress the need for the Indirect Tax one (whatever its called these days) before you let yourself loose on clients.
A common problem I think is often that new bookkeepers think they can tackle the 'small clients' because by doing so they do not provide any kind of complexity in their business scenario, but the problem is that they can often catch you out and want tax advice on some rather complex matters. Ive cited an example on this forum a number of times with what started as a small one man band business, was VAT registered (appeared to be the only complication) but within a couple of months developed into the need for knowledge on EC VAT matters, plus dealing with worldwide Withholding Tax issues to name but two issues. You cannot just take a client on then dump them onto someone else after two months as that is when reputations can be ruined, but on the same hand you cannot just run with it if you have no knowledge of what to do as reputations can be ruined and you can lose your house and children when they sue you! So its not just a case of you dont know what you dont know, as I mentioned in the other thread, but positioning yourself in the best possible way to deal with the unknowns dumped on you on a daily basis by your client base.
If you are working full time now and doing study, the time you have to fulfil clients needs is going to be very little and believe me they will swallow up your time like you will not believe!! So I would say, take one step at a time, finish your studies or at least progress them as far as you possibly can before unleashing yourself on clients. Remember that for your first clients, even with a full knowledge bank, that there will be many many non billable hours where you have to do your research of how to do something so that dead time needs to be factored in and that will be greater the less knowledge you have behind you.
Also, some of the really small clients, a popular one with some bodies are the hairdressers and driving instructor types (for some reason) do not want their bookkeeping doing by one person and the rest by someone else, they want a one stop shop. That you cannot provide as you have not done your tax exams.
I thought of something else but its gone from my head now (no headspace left for free thought these days ), but hope that helps for now.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Apologies, I had seen people receive short shrift for not introducing themselves so thought it was better to do two threads rather than one!
I agree about getting as far into my AAT as possible, and that is certainly the plan, however I learn better with practical experience if that makes sense and was thinking that doing bookkeeping for small business (non-VAT/EU imports etc) might be a good way to get the experience but at the same time being completely open to clients about my (in)experience. I do take on board the comments though and it has certainly given me food for thought.
I am leaning more towards Sage One/cloud products due to my AAT experience with them and also from a cost perspective for potential clients as well as making it as easy as possible for them to get onboard with the software as well?
I really do appreciate the comments so far though!
Apologies, I had seen people receive short shrift for not introducing themselves so thought it was better to do two threads rather than one! lol! No doubt you have also see my constant moans about the lack of thanks as well! I agree about getting as far into my AAT as possible, and that is certainly the plan, however I learn better with practical experience if that makes sense and was thinking that doing bookkeeping for small business (non-VAT/EU imports etc) might be a good way to get the experience but at the same time being completely open to clients about my (in)experience. I do take on board the comments though and it has certainly given me food for thought. I am leaning more towards Sage One/cloud products due to my AAT experience with them and also from a cost perspective for potential clients as well as making it as easy as possible for them to get onboard with the software as well?
I really do appreciate the comments so far though!
So just a few questions for you, no need to answer, just hopefully provide more food for thought:-
- will someone supervise your work? Given you dont know what you dont know -sorry I love that phrase - how do you know if you are doing their work correctly?
- how do you attract clients who are non VAT registered ONLY? What happens if they are close to the VAT threshold, or worse go over that limit without registering?
- how to do you attract clients by telling them you have no/little experience? Would that not put most folk off? (Care - not family members - keeping away from family and friends is covered by your Ethics module and taking such on is MAD at the best of times - how to lose friends easily!). For those who are not put off - are you then having to sell your services at some ridiculously cheap rate to get them to work with you, which then brings in its own problems (clients looking for a bookkeeper/Accountant on the basis of cost are the worst clients to have in so many ways!)
I am deliberatly not covering the Cloud issue - this has been covered a million and one times on this forum - have a poke about. Other than to say -being so prescriptive reduces the number of atractive clients, most of the cloud software is sh*te, most of the cloud software means you are paying through the nose monthly for ever, decisions over who pays for the software need to be carefully factored in and you need to consider the Data Protection/Safe Harbour stuff (which most folk seem to be ignoring! Looking forward to a high profile case with that one!)
I dont mean to burst your bubble - just want to make sure you go into this with eyes wide open!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Apologies, I had seen people receive short shrift for not introducing themselves so thought it was better to do two threads rather than one! lol! No doubt you have also see my constant moans about the lack of thanks as well! I agree about getting as far into my AAT as possible, and that is certainly the plan, however I learn better with practical experience if that makes sense and was thinking that doing bookkeeping for small business (non-VAT/EU imports etc) might be a good way to get the experience but at the same time being completely open to clients about my (in)experience. I do take on board the comments though and it has certainly given me food for thought. I am leaning more towards Sage One/cloud products due to my AAT experience with them and also from a cost perspective for potential clients as well as making it as easy as possible for them to get onboard with the software as well?
I really do appreciate the comments so far though!
So just a few questions for you, no need to answer, just hopefully provide more food for thought:-
- will someone supervise your work? Given you dont know what you dont know -sorry I love that phrase - how do you know if you are doing their work correctly?
- how do you attract clients who are non VAT registered ONLY? What happens if they are close to the VAT threshold, or worse go over that limit without registering?
- how to do you attract clients by telling them you have no/little experience? Would that not put most folk off? (Care - not family members - keeping away from family and friends is covered by your Ethics module and taking such on is MAD at the best of times - how to lose friends easily!). For those who are not put off - are you then having to sell your services at some ridiculously cheap rate to get them to work with you, which then brings in its own problems (clients looking for a bookkeeper/Accountant on the basis of cost are the worst clients to have in so many ways!)
I am deliberatly not covering the Cloud issue - this has been covered a million and one times on this forum - have a poke about. Other than to say -being so prescriptive reduces the number of atractive clients, most of the cloud software is sh*te, most of the cloud software means you are paying through the nose monthly for ever, decisions over who pays for the software need to be carefully factored in and you need to consider the Data Protection/Safe Harbour stuff (which most folk seem to be ignoring! Looking forward to a high profile case with that one!)
I dont mean to burst your bubble - just want to make sure you go into this with eyes wide open!
Definitely not taking the blame for not being able to get through to us today haha! I appreciate the comprehensive response, I'd rather that than people sugar coat things and paint it as a bed of roses.
I would (ideally) like to find a mentor to check that I'm doing things correctly but I do understand the basics of bookkeeping so it's not like I would be coming at it from a completely unprepared angle.
Small businesses who are selling direct to customers, people who have stalls at the Manchester Markets etc, small part time businesses with a (relatively) small turnover but where they also have jobs and don't the time to spend doing the basics if that makes sense. I have been involved in filing VAT returns at a previous business so that's not a completely alien concept to me either so I would be comfortable with that but initially would prefer to work with more 'simple' businesses.
I'm aware that an unexperienced bookkeeper would petrify most small business owners, and I don't want to be a busy fool but that would have to be reflected in my pricing to a certain extent as well as allowing the client to benefit from more of my attention than normal as it would be a micro-business, certainly in the first instance anyway until I develop more skills and gain in confidence.
I really do appreciate the honest feedback so far and I don't want to 'water down' the role of a bookkeeper by thinking that it's something that anybody can jump into... and this is something that I would probably be looking at for the turn of the year rather than going into it gung-ho, which will also give me time to study some more of the taxation modules with the AAT.
Not a million miles away from you - village about 4 miles from Stockport.
Never knew Sage had a place in the Quays. I do bit of business with BBC and ITV over there, plus have probably looked after most of the business in Trafford Park at some point or another in my life before Accountancy.
Good luck with that AVBK exam.
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position