Ok, so client has decided that term time pro-rata workers will no longer be required to work set hours each week. So hours will fluctuate on a weekly basis. With regards to calculating the pro-rata rate it is usually a case of rate x hours x weeks + holiday entitlement/52 weeks. Now I'm wondering can you even calculate a term time pro-rata rate based on fluctuating hours.
These particular employees want their wage spreading over 52 weeks so I cannot use the 12.07% method. I know all employees are entitled to 21 days holiday which they want factoring into their wage and spread over the 52 weeks but I am struggling to get my head around calculating a pro-rata rate on a week by week basis.
Bloody hell John, I go to start my dinner off and you're in there.
You don't know what you've been missing Nikole.
So he has changed their contracts to zero hours. With that kind orf negotiation I would be surprised if the contract is silent on the fact. Have you asked for a copy? (I do hope he has done this properly!).
You will need to know the start date of the holiday year, when it changed and re-work their running total entitlements based on previously weeks or months worked, stripping out the term time issues (just ignore that as if you were looking at it for any other kind of business, plus working in the new hours worked process. Suggest that he gives a bit extra rather than leaves it short to prevent any claims.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
It all seems very messy to me. All staff have been advised of the changes and I have advised them to update their contracts. One can hope....
When you say stripping out the term time issues I am a bit lost. The staff are only contracted to work 39 weeks of the year but want their wage over the 52 weeks. I cant factor in any new hours as they are guaranteed to change each week.
The requirements seem essentially contradictory to me. If people aren't working regular hours in any part of the year then you cannot apportion their pay across 52 weeks. It doesn't make sense to try.
Perhaps the answer is a (chargeable) meeting with the client, where they tell you how they want this to work. It isn't your job to work it out, in my honest opinion. Your job is to apply the formulae that are requested/specified by the client.
This is my point exactly Tom! The change has just been sprung on me. They have already had a meeting with their employees and told them this is what is going to happen. I just wanted to check with other members that I'm not understanding something.
-- Edited by Nikole on Monday 4th of December 2017 06:58:47 PM
I agree with Tom.they cannot just TELL their staff or they could end up with a few claims against them, so I would be firmly telling him that they need to renegotiate their contracts properly, document the way it should work in a contract and if he is not prepared to do that then perhaps consider disengaging.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I was thinking that they could perhaps agree to a minimum amount of hours each week. This could then be pro-rated then any extra hours worked could be paid as overtime then I could pay the them additional holiday pay at the 12.07% formula. That seems a fairer option.
IT just sounds like this guy wants to run zero hours and pay as little as possible, so I don't think he will agree to a minumum, but could be wrong. What is he like when you challenge him and tell him he is wrong?
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
They normally listen to me with regards to advice given and do take on board my advice when they are wrong. When it comes to accounts/payroll they really haven't got a clue (no offence to them) Is it too early to crack open my Christmas bottle of Baileys......
-- Edited by Nikole on Monday 4th of December 2017 07:20:49 PM
That sounds like its easy (ish) to fix then. Tell him to stop being a plonker and point him in the direction of a HR lawyer or at the very least ACAS so they can get something drawn up properly.
Its never too early to get drinking the Baileys (even straight out of the bottle if its needed)
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
I can't see how you can accurately split a term time only wage between 52 weeks when the hours are fluctuating. Teachers and teaching assistants who have this method of pay (my husband being one of them) have regular core hours usually.
Working out the holiday entitlement on fluctuating term time hours is something I used to do in my days of running an after school activity. Each month I entered hours worked into the government website holiday calculator and kept a running total of entitlement accrued on a spreadsheet. I then paid it as a lump sum at the end of each term.
Dont mean to be rude but did Acas fully understand what you meant with the question? TBH I wouldnt put that call out at all - could invalidate your PII. Get the client to put something over an email to them so he gets a definitive answer. You could check the email covers everything you will need before it goes, but just be careful about the 'advice' side of things so it doesnt bounce back on you!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
