I'm a newbie on this site and am about to start a Bookkeeping practice. I am ICB certified (AICB) and have an ICB diploma in SAT.
My question is, do I need to offer Payroll services? I know a lot of Bookkeepers offer this service so everything is under one roof for clients. However, I don't believe there is a lot of money to be made from Payroll management. ICB won't allow me to offer this service without having their PM Dip (Diploma). So if I want to practice under an ICB licence I will also have to get the Payroll diploma to offer this service. I can't afford to do this at the moment and I am wondering if it's worth paying the £400 to do the course?
Your thoughts and advice would be much appreciated
Providing you know what you're doing, I would say payroll is worth having as a service. It won't make you fortunes but it's not an expensive overhead either. I would recommend Moneysoft or Brightpay software.
If you don't want to do it then I'm sure Joanne or myself will be happy to take it on for you
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
hi John
The ICB are dictating that she has to provide such, assuming this is correct info, to be able to get her licence. So therefore she has to do their training.
I do wonder where Jo's assumption is that coming from that payroll is some kind of loss leader, tell that to all those making a fortune from it, but as I see it as she can't afford the course just ditch the ICB and get a licence elsewhere. Simples.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
ICB won't allow me to offer payroll services under their practice licence unless I have done the PM diploma. I have just paid out for the AICB and SAT diploma which will get me up and running but without offering payroll. I want to practice with an ICB licence.
My question was trying to gauge if the additional expense for the payroll course is worth it (for me at this time)? Joanne - I'm not wishing to get into a debate whether payroll is a money maker (I'm sure it is). I'm trying to work out if it's something I need to be offering initially to run a successful practice, or without it would I be turning away business? At this stage I'm not sure how many prospective clients would need payroll services.
I was hoping to get some advice if I should be doing the payroll course now (and try and finance it somehow) or do I start a bookkeeping practice without payroll and add it later when I can afford it more comfortably?
Approx. what % of bookkeeping clients also require payroll services?
Ive answered your question/points 1) I said that you can do what you like with your practice (Sun Mar 11 13:00 2018). 2) you suggested in your post that you thought it might not be viable - so I confirmed it was. Its not just a loss leader.
Up to you if you do the payroll course. But without it from what you say (and I dont know as Im not ICB) - the ICB will not give you a licence so surely its a moot point.
How can someone say what % of clients - doesnt that depend on the practice concerned and what offerings they make in the first instance?
My practice - 100% of clients need payroll. It is not a loss leader.
John also suggested an alternative - farm if out to those folk who do white label offerings. (Assuming that way you can still get an ICB licence, although why restrict yourself?)
Edited to change 'bookkeeping' to 'payroll' (4th line)
-- Edited by Cheshire on Monday 12th of March 2018 11:02:35 AM
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
No, but I havent got any on my books at the moment who have no employees.
But not relevant. If I did and did not offer payroll I would sub it out.
For the record I look after expanding businesses and only turn away or dump clients if they dont not meet MLR, I suspect them of ML, they are idiots, they are the type who dont like taking advice, ones who moan about their bills, ones who dont pay their bills, the ones who want to evade tax or screw their customers and suppliers, law breakers and that type.
edited to expand it from the original and still correct answer of 'no'. The point being as i said right from the get go - its YOUR business, so you decide. If ICB try to push you into a corner, why on earth would you want to stay with them?
-- Edited by Cheshire on Monday 12th of March 2018 10:36:53 AM
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
hi John The ICB are dictating that she has to provide such, assuming this is correct info, to be able to get her licence. So therefore she has to do their training.
I do wonder where Jo's assumption is that coming from that payroll is some kind of loss leader, tell that to all those making a fortune from it, but as I see it as she can't afford the course just ditch the ICB and get a licence elsewhere. Simples.
Hi Joanne
I understood she needs to do the payroll training in order to offer payroll under the ICB licence, but she doesn't actually need to offer payroll to get the licence, am I correct?
I wouldn't say I'm making fortunes from it, but that said, I'm very much under utilising it at the mo. However I do make an overall profit from it, so it's not a loss leader, as you rightly point out.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
hi John The ICB are dictating that she has to provide such, assuming this is correct info, to be able to get her licence. So therefore she has to do their training.
I do wonder where Jo's assumption is that coming from that payroll is some kind of loss leader, tell that to all those making a fortune from it, but as I see it as she can't afford the course just ditch the ICB and get a licence elsewhere. Simples.
Hi Joanne
I understood she needs to do the payroll training in order to offer payroll under the ICB licence, but she doesn't actually need to offer payroll to get the licence, am I correct? No idea John, wouldnt have thought so , but only going off what was said''if I want to practice under an ICB licence......''
I wouldn't say I'm making fortunes from it, but that said, I'm very much under utilising it at the mo. However I do make an overall profit from it, so it's not a loss leader, as you rightly point out.
Lots of practices have payroll clerks, or a whole Payroll department, so they are covering wages costs as well as software - it does depend on the plans of the OP.
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Hey both, can we drop the debate over whether payroll makes money. I have never said it's a loss maker - I said I don't believe there is a lot of money to be made. If people do make tonnes of money doing payroll, fantastic.
I am trying to decide whether I need to be offering it as a service to my bookkeeping business (or offer it but outsource it). I feel I may need to direct this question to ICB people.
Hey both, can we drop the debate over whether payroll makes money. I have never said it's a loss maker - I said I don't believe there is a lot of money to be made. If people do make tonnes of money doing payroll, fantastic.
I am trying to decide whether I need to be offering it as a service to my bookkeeping business (or offer it but outsource it). I feel I may need to direct this question to ICB people.
''Hey''
Is that an appropriate response? No!
Your original comment was 'I know a lot of Bookkeepers offer this service so everything is under one roof for clients. However, I don't believe there is a lot of money to be made from Payroll management''
So - we were putting you right!!!!!!!!!! THAT aspect SURELY is one which you should be considering if you are going into any kind of business as one of the goals is surely to do with profitability, so SURELY thats a fundamental part of the decision process.
Or were you just looking for a yes or no answer?
Its your business - you decide!!!!!!
if you cant make such a decision for yourself how on earth can you assist business owners?
You clearly do not want to take advice from independent successful bookeepers and Accountants. Thats fine - there is an ICB forum.
Edited to correct typo
-- Edited by Cheshire on Monday 12th of March 2018 12:29:38 PM
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Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Hey both, can we drop the debate over whether payroll makes money. I have never said it's a loss maker - I said I don't believe there is a lot of money to be made. If people do make tonnes of money doing payroll, fantastic.
I am trying to decide whether I need to be offering it as a service to my bookkeeping business (or offer it but outsource it). I feel I may need to direct this question to ICB people.
Wow! I will move to another forum as this one is not very friendly/helpful.
But unlike some other sites you do actually get answers to questions here.
Just had a read through and there has been nothing unfriendly or unhelpful said. Battle worn veterans at this game responded to you and treated you with respect without blowing smoke up your proverbial.
If you want it sugar coated then as you suggest there are other sites. But if you want independent, constructive answers to help you to move from theory to practice then there are only two sites. This one and Accountingweb.... Actually, go over to Aweb and ask your question... Or even just mention ICB... Joanne, John, Casu... I'll bring the popcorn.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Lol. Methinks that she's going to regret that decision when she actually needs some real help.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
