I've got my first retail customer on VAT! Sods law she went over the threshold (by £21!!) on the 31st July, so I need to register her pronto.
On the retail scheme can we log cash and credit card sales, calculating VAT on a daily basis, and the paypal sales as a single figure on a monthly basis, as we do now? All I can see is that you calculate the VAT at the end of each quarter, which I don't want to do.
If we opt for the standard VAT scheme can we still log sales daily as a single figure, and presumably the daily paypal figure? Won't be cash accounting either way
__________________
John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
The client is required o maintain a Daily Gross Takings (DGT) record, as a condition of using a retail scheme.
Thanks Les, I'm aware of that. What I'm asking is if I can record the VAT daily in the accounts, rather than waiting til the end of the quarter. I appreciate that I would also have to keep a daily record of paypal sales as well.
Alternatively on the standard scheme would a daily total on cash and credit cards be sufficient and a monthly total for paypal sales still. I've looked at VAT 700 and VAT 727 and they don't seem to answer my question.
Hi Doug. I'd already looked at VAT727, but thanks.
__________________
John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Hi John
You may be waiting for Les' expertise in this but didnt I sort of answer this on a post a couple of weeks back? Although I guess that wasnt specifically to do with the retail scheme. or are you look at it from an MTD persepective?
One thing I would say is about checking your tax point on the old sales via their website/payment through paypal.
Supply point is key for VAT. You might find that that is in fact a couple of days (or may be just one) prior to the funds showing up on paypal. Why bother you may ask? Well at the quarter end it needs to be in the correct VAT quarter. But it may be more of an issue if the VAT rates ever change (and has been the subject of court cases when it has on all VAT schemes) so ensure you get that right (and hence why its better to process the sales via the website data dumps than paypal).
Im sure you dont need reminding that you ignore paypal fees (just saying it for others!) as its gross sales.
I would say you can go with the monthly dump to your software as long as that can tally with the 'daily' requirement that HMRC ask you to abide by.
In your first post you mentioned calculating VAT each quarter, that I read as indicating its not an annual scheme or generic when you run the VAT each quarter (as you do for standard). You can upload the stuff into your software, currently, as often or as little as you want (pending the changes!)
Does this client do sales with differing VAT rates? Probably shouldve asked that first!!
Which VAT retail scheme are you looking at? Probably shouldve asked that first!!
Not sure if that helps you or not!
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Oh John, I can see that you have been to the dark side for an answer and added the info I asked about VAT rates.
Do you need to go on the scheme then? Stick with normal scheme?
That's the bit I'm struggling with. If I go with the normal scheme do I need to report paypal sales daily, or go for a monthly dump as long as I can provide daily figures if asked? Not sure if you were referring to just the retail scheme in your comments.
Point noted about the date of transaction, but a slight complication is that she does sales just on paypal eg someone will message her on facebook and she says pay it through paypal and I'll sent it to you. Could the issue be fixed by going with VAT cash accounting, which will then allow me to use the paypal payment date?
To answer your other questions, nothing to do with MTD
Yes, I was hung up on the calculating VAT quarterly notes, I should have waited for you to come along but I got impatient, thought nobody loved me .
And I'm waiting for your reply this time, I wont stray to the dark side again
__________________
John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Oh John, I can see that you have been to the dark side for an answer and added the info I asked about VAT rates.
Do you need to go on the scheme then? Stick with normal scheme?
That's the bit I'm struggling with. If I go with the normal scheme do I need to report paypal sales daily, or go for a monthly dump as long as I can provide daily figures if asked? Not sure if you were referring to just the retail scheme in your comments.
Point noted about the date of transaction, but a slight complication is that she does sales just on paypal eg someone will message her on facebook and she says pay it through paypal and I'll sent it to you. Could the issue be fixed by going with VAT cash accounting, which will then allow me to use the paypal payment date?
To answer your other questions, nothing to do with MTD
Yes, I was hung up on the calculating VAT quarterly notes, I should have waited for you to come along but I got impatient, thought nobody loved me . Been having problems with my ipad all weekend. Kept crashing. Have just spent an age deleting a million and one photos I no longer need, one by one, thinking this is ridiculous, surely you can do them in bulk. Until I eventually realised I could do just that!!!! What a numpty!
And I'm waiting for your reply this time, I wont stray to the dark side again you will probably get more sense there!
I would probably use retail scheme - it says you must use POS for one of the schemes - thats ok for the shop sales and it is after all meant to make the thing easier.
Another is apportionment scheme - I would argue you are doing that for the Facebook sales but apportioning all at 100%. I might not win that one!!!!
So you could just use the standard scheme for the Facebook sales. Are there many sales?
If you can get some sort of feed from Facebook that would help. How to put this (sorry brain frazzled) Is this side of the business all a bit like a hobby/less professional in that respect? How do you know what sale relates to what payment in paypal or if she doesnt get the full funds/someone doesnt pay? Or does she just deal with that side of it?
If she doesnt actually 'supply' the goods unil she KNOWS that the funds have been received in paypal then your supply and payment date should be the same and therefore solves the problem of the tax point. (hint!) It may even be that the funds hit first so that would become your tax point.
Do you get an excel/csv doc from paypal showing all the funds flowing in? If so I would use that to just dump into your software with the VAT adjusted on a line by line basis. The sales would be in your software on the day they are made, but you are only doing the data dump once a month. At least that way you are also future proofing it for MTD. (perhaps just keep an eye out at quarter end)
Of and I dont think the VAT cash accounting scheme would gain you anything. Happy to stand corrected though.
Hope that is clear than mud. Might be worth a call with Les if you are still unsure?
-- Edited by Cheshire on Monday 10th of September 2018 05:35:30 PM
__________________
Joanne
Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017
Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.
You should check out answers with reference to the legal position
Only reason I know about facebook sales is because I'll see somebody request something and she'll say send me payment to paypal and I'll dispatch it. She's pretty switched on and methodical and only dispatches when paid. I think she just sees it as an extension of her shop and internet sales. Actually, thinking about it, I believe she runs these sales through the till. (I'll double check in the morning) I told her not to record them on VT as I was picking them when doing paypal, so it's going to make sense to record these sales from 1st September and I'll pick up the internet sales, and just treat paypal as I would the main bank.
Thank you very much for your help, it's helped me a lot more than you probably realise. I owe you a cocktail or whatever it is you drink!.
__________________
John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
. 
