MTD - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

MTD

Artois · Guru

Hi Joanne,

That is good news indeed but I do feel sorry (not) for all the people that have already jumped ship biggrin

But it would be even better news if MTD is postponed or even scrapped altogether.

VinceH · Expert

That's brilliant news - thanks for the heads up about it.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Artois wrote:

Hi Joanne,
That is good news indeed but I do feel sorry (not) for all the people that have already jumped ship
But it would be even better news if MTD is postponed or even scrapped altogether.

I didn't (smug grin on first line)... But was certainly not looking forwards to having to get VT to work alongside something else.

And full agreement on the second line.

Cheers for the heads up Joanne. biggrin

Think that all the Lemmings have already jumped.

Kinbuck · Senior Member

Woo hoo, it's an early Christmas pressie :) thanks Joanne,

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Thanks Joanne, that's excellent news, and hopefully I won't need bridging software at all now. (Pandle say they are working towards it and that's the only other bookkeeping software I use)

-- Edited by Leger on Sunday 9th of December 2018 02:35:00 PM

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Got the update today.

MTD is implemented through VT Transaction+ so no worries about needing to move up to VT Accounts for people. However, for those who don't, know that gong fowards there will now be an annual charge of £75.

Here is the full wording :

MTD
As you are probably aware, HMRC are changing the method used to file VAT returns. This is part of HMRCs Making Tax Digital (MTD) strategy.

For VAT return periods commencing on or after 01 April 2019, most businesses will no longer be able to enter the VAT return totals directly onto HMRCs web site. Instead, VAT return totals must be transmitted directly from the accounting software used by the business or from bridging software. Bridging software products digitally import the VAT return totals from accounting software and transmit them to HMRC.

In a change of policy, VT will be implementing MTD directly into VT Transaction+ and VT Cash Book (instead of relying on third party bridging software). This feature will be available by the time the first quarterly VAT returns need to be filed under MTD in July 2019.

VT will also be developing an Excel based bridging product for use with VAT groups and other situations where the VAT return cannot be transmitted directly from VT Transaction+.

To keep up to date with MTD, please visit VTs website at www.vtsoftware.co.uk/mtd.

Subscription costs
The VT Accounts suite will continue to include VT Transaction+. The price of a VT Accounts subscription will remain at £150 + VAT per annum. A premium will no longer be charged in the first year of purchase. A VT Accounts license will be required to use the MTD features in VT Transaction+ as an agent.

For VT Transaction+ only users, the next release of VT Transaction+ will require an annual license key. The cost of a license key will be £75 + VAT per annum, including support. The new price will apply from 1 February 2019. All existing keys will continue to be valid in the current version indefinitely and in the new version until 30 June 2020. Users without a valid key will still be able to read data but they will not be able to enter new transactions.

VT Cash Book will remain free except that a VT Accounts or VT Transaction+ license key will be required for the MTD features.

Now, to me that sounds good news all round in that the alternatives were more expensive and with this option everything remains integrated for a small annual fee for whch you can still have unlimited clients and an annual charge will help to keep VT going where I know that some pay once then thats it forever... Which is still an option but you wouldn't have the ability to file MTD returns.

HTH,

Shaun.

Artois · Guru

Cheers Shaun, thanks for the update

VinceH · Expert

One of my biggest issues with 'subscription' software had been the risk of data becoming inaccessible if the subscription is not kept up - it's one of my beefs with the use of cloudy packages, for instance.

So it's quite pleasing that although VT will be moving to a subscription basis, not only is that subscription not unduly excessive, but that (quoting Shaun's quoting of the email):

"Users without a valid key will still be able to read data but they will not be able to enter new transactions."

That is exactly how things should be. So well done to VT for taking this sensible approach.

My planned solution to the MTD issue was going to be to use a RISC OS accounts package called Prophet as a bridging solution (it's an old package which is now being given some love, and the developer looking after it is currently working on adding MTD support). I'm going to use it for my own accounts anyway - but I could have also exported VAT data from software like Sage, imported into Prophet, and then used it to make VAT submissions.

However, with this news from VT, I'll almost certainly go that way for MTD submissions instead. After all, VT will be running not just on the same OS as Sage, but the same physical computer. It's not in the slightest bit difficult to move stuff between platforms, but VT makes it unnecessary.

Kinbuck · Senior Member

Thanks Shaun, I hadn't had time to look at the full detail yet.

lots to learn · Senior Member

It's great news Joanne

I was so excited when I received this email that I posted before reading this post and realising you had already shared the good news. Doh!!

I spoke with an accountant the other day who I was surprised had never even heard of VT. It might now look like a more viable option to people who had not considered it before.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

biggrin biggrin

Arent we amused by some strange things!!! biggrin biggrin

But always good to save some dosh (for us and/or for clients) and its such a straightforward bit of kit to use.

biggrin biggrin biggrin

Thanks for posting the announcement email Shaun.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Shamus wrote:
Subscription costs
A VT Accounts license will be required to use the MTD features in VT Transaction+ as an agent.

VT Cash Book will remain free except that a VT Accounts or VT Transaction+ license key will be required for the MTD features.
Now, to me that sounds good news all round in that the alternatives were more expensive and with this option everything remains integrated for a small annual fee for whch you can still have unlimited clients and an annual charge will help to keep VT going where I know that some pay once then thats it forever... Which is still an option but you wouldn't have the ability to file MTD returns.

So the way I'm reading this is that if I want to use VT to submit VAT as an agent, I will have to pay an annual subscription for VT accounts, but someone using VT transaction + or VT cash book for their own accounts wil need to pay £75 per annum if they want to submit VAT

I'm ok with that although it would be cheaper for me to use bridging software, as I only have 4 VAT clients at the moment. However I agree with Shaun in that we should support VT, it's not a mashoosive amount anyway. What would be nice is for VT Accounts to be able to do the CT600 filing, then I could ditch taxfiler. I didn't renew my VT Accounts when it ran out because it was just as easy to transfer the VT + data direct into taxfiler and send it from there, but I did like the seamless transition with VT Accounts. I'm expecting taxfiler to go up in April so I may well be looking for different filing options anyway.

Jay · Senior Member

I must admit I missed this........excellent news.

Thank you

Jay

morgwick · Senior Member

Hi could I ask a quick question.

I don't file the VAT returns for any of my clients, I only have 2 that are VAT registered and they do it themselves. Would my clients need to buy the full VT+ package to file it themselves or is this where the bridging software comes in? Would I be able to send the figures from VT to them to then file to HMRC?

Thank you.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Gill
Probably a bit overkill if they only have one Limited company/business themselves, unless of course they are using VT already to do their bookkeeping.

They is cheaper/free software out there, listed on HMRC website, with Im sure possibly more to come before the deadline. There has been a free one mentioned on here a few times, cant recall the name, have it stashed in my favourites somewhere, may try to find it later. Worth a trawl round the site.

morgwick · Senior Member

Thanks Joanne,

It's myself who has the VTT+. I do the bookeeping for them and then I give them a copy of the VAT return so that they can file it themselves. But I won't be able to do this if they can no longer manually input the figures. So would they have to buy/acquire some bridging software so if I send them the figures in a spreadsheet they can upload it?

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Hi Gill

I think the bridging software Joanne is referring to is Avalara. I was going to trial it but following warnings (thanks Joanne)about getting stuck in a system that is still in Beta stage, as VAT 4 MTD is, I decided to wait until we have to use the MTD part, which for me will be end of July (3 VAT returns all at the same time)

You will need to send the VAT return on an excel sheet then the client will need to use the bridging software to submit it to HMRC.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Gill
Do you have VT Accounts as well as VTT+?

morgwick · Senior Member

Thanks for the reply John.

I feel old when I say this, but I hate change. I only do this part time, makes me wonder whether its worthwhile continuing sometimes after paying out for MLR etc.

Many thanks to you all again.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Leger wrote:
Hi Gill
I think the bridging software Joanne is referring to is Avalara. I was going to trial it but following warnings (thanks Joanne)about getting stuck in a system that is still in Beta stage, as VAT 4 MTD is, I decided to wait until we have to use the MTD part, which for me will be end of July (3 VAT returns all at the same time)
You will need to send the VAT return on an excel sheet then the client will need to use the bridging software to submit it to HMRC.

Hi John

Didnt see this before I posted. HMRC have (desperately) extended their trial to ANYONE!!!! Actually ALL VAT reg businesses as they clearly dont have enough data from the ones who are in it, probably not helped by last months 'mess up' at the crucial VAT period end when folk had to revert back to the standard process. Bonkers.

Hi Gill

If you have VT Accounts then you wont need Avalara as VT will have it as part of your plan. (You should have received an email from VT explaining that). If you have it - then send the VAT off for authorisation as you do now, get their approval to file and you file it via VT. You can of course pass some of the software costs on to your client.

Failing that they or you can have Avalara and process as they do now, via the new software or you do it via the authorisation and approval process above.

morgwick · Senior Member

Cheshire wrote:
Hi Gill
Do you have VT Accounts as well as VTT+?

Thanks Joanne,

I just have VT transaction+. I don't file tax returns etc as not a tax specialist, so a local accountant does that.

My understanding from the email is the VTT+ will be MTD compatible, but I'm not a registered agent for them, so I'm assuming I can't file for my customers? Or if they authorise each quarter, this will be possible?

Thanks for your guidance.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Gill
yes VTT+ will be MTD compatible, but if you are using an old version and not paying annually for it, which many are, then you would end up paying a fee each year. If you are already paying a fee each year so that you have the support then as far as I understand it there will be no extra cost. I would suggest it would come down to cost for your personal circumstances.

Not sure yet if you absolutely have to be listed as an agent, but to be honest, you really should be if you are filing on their behalf.

Its a case of watch this space at the mo. As John says, dont rush into anything until its nearer the time, although I would get the agent part set up sooner rather than later as HMRC are not known for their speed of response on this one just now. You need to apply to be an agent and get your codes back (you can do online, but they use snail mail to respond). Then once you have that you need to add your clients. Again you can do it online but you have to wait for them to confirm it once they get their (sent by pigeon post via China, using pigeons who have lost their homing instinct) HMRC letter. It is straightforward, just slow!

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Hi Joanne

Gill will need agent status if she files on thei behalf.

I had the following email from HMRC this morning so I presume others have too?

Hello

And Happy New year to all our readers!

2019 already, and a busy year ahead for us all.

Many no doubt in the midst of Self-Assessment filing peak at the moment (must do mine this week!).

But we must always be conscious of MTD on the near horizon!

Did you know ? there are 8,500 new Agent Services Accounts already created? Remember, you will need a new ASA to submit VAT returns for periods starting on or after 1 April 2019 (unless deferred). Creating the new ASA, and linking existing clients from your existing Government Gateway account does not commit you to submitting under MTD, but does get a key readiness feature in place.

We send this document out to over 12,000 Agents at the moment. We are trying to have it sent to all Agents registered with HMRC, but that is taking some time to arrange.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Thanks for the update John - Im clearly not in the first tranche to get this as Ive seen absolutely nothing as yet, so I will keep an eye out. Gawd what bloody dreadful English in that email!

Actually Im wondering if something has passed me by (quite probably given the state of the last few months at Fallows Towers!) - is the Agent services agent the same as the old being an agent stuff? I cannot even recall now what the hell Ive got, must double check, so double thanks.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Cheshire wrote:
Thanks for the update John - Im clearly not in the first tranche to get this as Ive seen absolutely nothing as yet, so I will keep an eye out. Gawd what bloody dreadful English in that email!

Actually Im wondering if something has passed me by (quite probably given the state of the last few months at Fallows Towers!) - is the Agent services agent the same as the old being an agent stuff? I cannot even recall now what the hell Ive got, must double check, so double thanks.

It's a lets all be mates down the pub type of email in't it? The agent services account is slightly different to the normal agent log in. First you have to set it up (and I've not even looked at how you do that yet (1) ) then you have to get put all your VAT clients into it (not sure about SA and CT clients) Also the VAT client has to go into their business tax account and authorise you as well for the MTD bit.

(1) I'm leaving it well alone until February or March, partly because I have to set a new VAT agent thingy up anyway as the VAT and PAYE are still down as 111 Business Solutions, and it's been a nightmare to get changed, so I was advised to delete and start again.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Thanks John.

I need a good sort out of what Ive got and havent got! A ton of reading up on lots of stuff at the mo - with an ever growing pile.

VinceH · Expert

I've just spotted an email from Adminsoft to say the latest version of their software - Adminsoft Accounts - can now handle MTD.

(I downloaded it to try out many years ago, but I'm not sure if it didn't suit my needs at the time, or I just didn't like it, or both - I really can't remember what it was like. But I mention it because it might be a useful option to some. At the very least, it might be good enough to use as a bridging solution.)

VinceH · Expert

...and as of yesterday, judging by the email I've just spotted, VT Software have now announced the MTD ready versions of Transaction+ and Cashbook.

Artois · Guru

VinceH wrote:
...and as of yesterday, judging by the email I've just spotted, VT Software have now announced the MTD ready versions of Transaction+ and Cashbook.

Hi Vince, yes I got the same email

Jay · Senior Member

Yes I noticed this with the latest VT update. My VAT clients are now all "authorised" to file via VT.

I have to say that VT is a superb programme.

BW

Jay

Casu · Senior Member

Hi
Can you use VT as bridging type software?

I have a client who doesnt want to move software, but if I can import it into VT somehow and file VAT from there, would that work? Would that work after the soft landing, as there will never be an API link to the accounting software?

Confused.

Casu · Senior Member

Casu wrote:
Hi
Can you use VT as bridging type software? In answer to my own Q - yes you can.

I have a client who doesnt want to move software, but if I can import it into VT somehow and file VAT from there, would that work? Would that work after the soft landing, as there will never be an API link to the accounting software? Still need an answer (Q re section 8 of 700/22 VAT notice)

Confused.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Casu wrote:
Casu wrote:
Hi
Can you use VT as bridging type software? In answer to my own Q - yes you can.

I have a client who doesnt want to move software, but if I can import it into VT somehow and file VAT from there, would that work? Would that work after the soft landing, as there will never be an API link to the accounting software? Still need an answer (Q re section 8 of 700/22 VAT notice)

Confused.

Hi Caron

lol, love it when you answer your own Qs!!!!

Yes agree with the top one, although Ive not looked to see how wasy or difficult its going to be.

Re teh second point, I was trying to read section 8 of VAT notice 700/22 yesterday as its gives examples of the same sort of thing. Have to admit to being defeated by it as part of the pictures I couldnt even read even on my big PC screen AND with my glasses on! Will gvie it another go this week at some point when Ive stopped having nightmares about a couple of mine.

Although hoping someone else might get in there first with a response!!!! biggrin wink confuse

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Casu wrote:
Hi
Can you use VT as bridging type software?

I have a client who doesnt want to move software, but if I can import it into VT somehow and file VAT from there, would that work? Would that work after the soft landing, as there will never be an API link to the accounting software?

Confused.

Hi Caron

My understanding is this. Accounts have to be done on software or a spreadsheet. You either then submit from your software if API enabled or use a digital link to send it to API enabled bridging software. There isn't a specific example in Q8 but no. 5 comes closest - Just ignore the spreadsheet bit.

As long as you can export the 9 box page to excel or csv you can import it into the VT bridging add on and send it from there, and that applies after the soft landing too. (assuming HMRC don't move any goalposts, which I highly doubt they will) More details here http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/mtd/ there is a 60 day trial on the MTD version (even if you've had a trial before) so maybe worth checking it out to see how it works from your software.

Casu · Senior Member

Thank you John and Joanne.

John, I looked at eg 8 and think I confused myself with the digital link (thinking it meant API when it actually means using a USB stick). Although its still confusing me - adjustments need to be recorded in clients records or agent 'stores the changes and allow the client can access to the records' (sic) . So what if they are adjustments that can be kept outside eg capital redemption scheme, margin scheme and fuel scale charge? Just seems to conflict with what is granted as ok to leave out from elsewhere in notes. Think I need to read it again with an empty brain. But the info is a clear as mush.

Leger · Master Book-keeper

Hi Caron.

From my understanding, the adjustments you mention are not part of the digital requirements and can be done manually

There's some useful info here just down near the bottom of the page regarding digital links which I hope helps. Unfortunately (or possibly fortunately) my most complex VAT return is a retail scheme so I can only go by what I've read, rather than any practical help

https://www.icaew.com/technical/tax/making-tax-digital/mtd-guidance/mtd-and-vat

Jay · Senior Member

Good morning all,

Appreciate the excellent guidance above.

Just when I thought all was going well with MTD, I have a problem with transferring a client. Despite checking everything, ( all seems ok) I cannot resolve it and think it may be a problem with HMRC.
Is there a dedicated MTD helpline or do I just telephone the VAT Agents helpline?

Thank you

Jay

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Jay
When you say problem transferring - can you explain a little more?

Transferring to your ASA?

Is your client in your existing agent account for VAT?
Have you clicked on the transfer option in your ASA?
Is it because you cannot see them in the ASA?

Or is it a new one you want to add?
Are they signed up for MTD? (There is an optimum time).

Sorry for so many Qs.

Failing us helping, which hopefully we can, then call 0300 200 3700

Jay · Senior Member

Thank you so much.

I used your guidance as a check list and immediately realised I had not signed the client up for MTD.

I think I overlooked this as all our other clients are fine.

Best wishes

Jay

Casu · Senior Member

Leger wrote:
Hi Caron.
From my understanding, the adjustments you mention are not part of the digital requirements and can be done manually
There's some useful info here just down near the bottom of the page regarding digital links which I hope helps. Unfortunately (or possibly fortunately) my most complex VAT return is a retail scheme so I can only go by what I've read, rather than any practical help
https://www.icaew.com/technical/tax/making-tax-digital/mtd-guidance/mtd-and-vat

thank you

Onion4Sage · Senior Member

For all you Sage users: were you aware of this? ambitionmtd.co.uk/

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Not heard of this one Ian. Have you tried it?

Ive got a couple of old sage users who both run the VAT margin scheme and Im having nightmares about it (still! until I find time to work through how easy it is to manipulate the 4 & 6given journals report in the 'wrong' boxes, as do Credit notes and I manipulate data in sage for part exchanges via credit notes.)

Onion4Sage · Senior Member

Hi Joanne,

No, not tried it, but a cursory glance suggests that you could happily use older perpetual licence versions of Sage with it and avoid subscription to the costly MTD module. Whether it is a long term solution or not remains to be seen.

The marketing seems to be aimed directly at the (apparent) excessive cost of the MTD module subscription. If it provides MTD capabilities and continues to do so into the future it may be a very attractive option for some. I dare say Online50 are hoping that the MTD offering will open up other selling opportunities.

Regards,

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Hi Ian
Thanks for the info. I will keep this in mind.

Ive told all my clients with sage perpetual not to fall for Sage's sales tactics to move them to the MTD module subscription, nor indeed the upgrade so its MTD ready (which was the message pre April!). The regulation states that bridging software is not just for the soft landing period, so as long as some of the software providers are still around at that time/dont hike their prices to £silly then there will always be options. I have several as my backstop at the moment. VT (I pay for the full module anyway and its not extortionate), Taxfiler (again I pay for their otehr tax filing products, albeit not happy with their price hike since (Iris!), VATDirect (John Hemming on Aweb)and failing all - QuickBooks Online. Well failing all....retirement!

Jay · Senior Member

Just another word of thanks to Joanne for responding to my plea for help regarding transferring our final VAT client for MTD.

Just started filing our clients MTD VAT returns using VT and all is going well.

BW

Jay