Hi boys
On a very personal level, Im in a high risk group due to my asthma and have been advised to self isolate like the oldies for 12 weeks. Im thinking, Im otherwise fit and healthy, not had a bad asthma 'event' (ie a 3 weeker) for about 6 years, so just carry on and try to help elderley neighbours etc, that is until my whole family and frankly several lovely clients told me to get a grip and do as I was told for a change. I have encountered extremely bad periods of respitory distress over the last 30 years and have so far, touch wood, never had to be hospitalised so I am not planning on being a burden to the NHS now. Yes, you heard it from me, a first, I am doing as Im told!

So, I am collecting a clients batch of paperwork for the last time today. They are on semi shutdown today due to a funeral, with only the receptionist in. I could let them deliver the papers and that will happen in future, but I need all my records/notes and as Vince said need to 'look for' the correct paperwork before systems are put in place for future document delivery, so with only one person in - its a good time to visit. Then Im on lockdown. Issue is - I normally do 2 days a week (this is my semi FD type role) and not being in makes that harder.

Ive undertaken some research (UK Lancet type/Chinese info) as has my brother (USA info) and have found out that, as far as they know, the virus can stay around on paper/plastic for c 3 days, I read somewhere could be up to 5) so all my clients are now aware to drop their papers off but that they then will not be touched for a minimum of 5 days. One client INSISTED I sanitise the papers he dropped off yesterday - he has just returned from a skiing trip in a badly infected area of Austria on Sunday. It may be extreme but Im taking no chances with my health.

I have spoken to all of my clients bar one. For most its business as usual this week, although footfall for most has already decreased massively and at least 2 expect to be closed by weekend due to reduced sales or once the government bring in sanctions in the retail sector. Many already work from home, but have involvement in the pub sector, recruitment and the like, so have plans to semi diversify or will shut up shop. I expect a few will fold and I feel very badly for them as those who will are damned hard workers and lovely lovely people.

This will of course impact massively on the daily lives on bookeepers/Accountants and Im aware of both of your particular circumstances John and Vince. So lets hope we can all ride this out, but that the ride is a short one.

Vince - protect your health as much as you can - perhaps consider to do what Im doing re the paperwork if you can. Glove up, disinfect and work from home as much as possible. Im looking at remote PC access to one client at the mo, but already have it for others. Glad you havent seen too much impact John - hope that continues.

Stay safe!

Thanks for replies.

I did wonder about you Joanne, as I saw your comments on another forum of having to self isolate.For the likes of myself, I would sooner get it and be done with but I'm consciously aware that that people like yourself and Doug have to much take extra care.  Fortunately I don't have any paperwork to contend with until the subbies start in April, as I've had all the paperwork sent by email.  I'm just wondering, if you handle paperwork with surgical gloves*, does that reduce/eliminate the risk of getting it that way.  Obviously a thorough clean down after each session would be required.

*Assuming you can get any, that is.

 

Hi Vince
Im not using sanitiser on the paperwork because like you I couldnt get any. The only ones that really work are the ones with 60% + alcohol content, which most of them havent got anyway....I could use the vodka I have stashed but might need that to keep me chirpy. Plus as you say, it could be an issue with paper - you would have to hang it all on a washing line.

Ive read that the virus will just die within the time frame mentioned. It needs a host to continue to live. Now Im no expert and things are moving all the time, information kind of changes as they learn more about this virus as the world turns! There was a new article out today about the virus living longer than we though, although my estimate of 3-5 days seems to still be erring on the side of caution for paper (they state 3 if I recall), but its your other surfaces where it can linger for longer, eg a table, so check out eg the BBC website for the latest announcement.

My plan after the time period was then to process it whilst wearing gloves, but then be aware the gloves may be contaminated #

The MAJOR message, it seems, is - whatever you touch do not, absolutely do not, then touch your face as that is the way the virus gets into your body.

Easier said than done as we humans are actually pre-programmed to touch our faces a hell of a lot, its a fundamentl behaviour of the human race and we do it without noticing most of the time. We tend to touch our faces for a number of reasons - reduces stress, self-soothing, flirting etc it places a role in cognitive and emotional processes.

The wearing of a mask whilst processing the work may help just because it means you cannot touch as much of your face as you would normally. Actually just had a thought - wearing balaclavas would be a great idea, then you just have to remember not to touch your eyes. Oh boy, how can we set up a production plant?!!!!

Your soap idea is a good one! I will hazard a guess a few people will be regretting giving you funny looks! Most folk will no doubt scoff at the idea of just washing your hands in soap and water, but its not as daft as it seems. Without getting all scientific, the main issue with a lot of viruses and especially this one is that the microbes itself are sticky, the longer they can stick to something, the more chance of getting into your body, the more effective they can be. The soap disrupts the virus and the nasty half dead bugs then dissolve in the water. Stops them sticking. Im not saying is completely fool proof, but goes a long long way to helping. If you havent watched it - worth a watch of the video how to wash your hands effectively as most folk tend to miss bits!

# when you remove the gloves, ensure you do so so that they become inside out and then ditch them. Or...ensure you wash them thoroughly in soap and water/sanitise. Plus then sanitise your desk etc (watered down bleach Ive been told can help).

Riel wrote:

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If you need hand sanitiser they are selling it on Amazon takes a while to get here though. Like you Joanne I also have asthma an am working from home.

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Susssshhhhh, dont tell everyone Riel.  Yes, stuff like that is taking what seems like an age on the old delivery dates.

Glad you are protecting yourself.  But it aint half weird cutting yourself off, isnt it!

Has anyone thought about making their own sanitiser?  There is a recipe somewhere, the alcohol isn't a problem (hic) but whether the other ingredients can be got I don't know.

Hi Lorry, interesting about wearing gloves outdoors, never thought of that.  However I've not noticed checkout people wearing them yet, and they are dealing with handling change and notes all the time.  If I worked in a shop I think I would want to wear gloves definitely.

John: I did think about that before I opted to create my portable washing kit - hand sanitiser being a second best for when you can't wash your hands. That kit means I can wash my hands frequently when out and about, so no need for the hand sanitiser.

I think you need something like isopropyl alcohol, essential oils, and aloe vera - all of which are readily available (though the isopropyl alcohol might not be something you can get in your local supermarket). OTTOMH I'd say the main mix is 2/3 alcohol, with 1/3 aloe vera, and some drops of the oils - but you'd be better off checking a reliable source than going by my memory. :)

But if you have suitable containers, I'd go down the route of making a washing kit.

Hi Vince,

Yes, that's how I work it with a series of pairs of gloves and its easy enough to manage. I have a BP issue as well to consider. 

Completely agree with you regarding some folks approach to this, without a thought for others it seems.  I'm glad to see there are places offering free hot drinks and discounted takeaways to NHS workers, and some shops providing shopping slots for the elderly, and keeping supplies for NHS workers.  

My caterer client above has had to close the kitchen, following Bo Jo's announcement last night.  Was going to lay the other one off next week and just him and his wife run it, but that's been taken out of their hands now.

As he hadn't actually issued termination notices (he was letting the first one know on Monday), we're currently looking into the job retention scheme.  Can the portal be up and running in a matter of a few weeks?  Collossal task I would imagine.

Thoughts are offer them the retention scheme option or terminate their employment (won't be able to pay payment in leiu, but can cover this weeks wages) both are on Universal Credit  so not sure how that affects them with either option.

I know it's early and info is very thin on the ground but does anyone know how it's handled on the payroll side regarding the job retention scheme?  I know you have to lay them off unpaid in order to qualify, that's as much as I can glean so far.

Leger wrote:

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My caterer client above has had to close the kitchen, following Bo Jo's announcement last night.  Was going to lay the other one off next week and just him and his wife run it, but that's been taken out of their hands now.

As he hadn't actually issued termination notices (he was letting the first one know on Monday), we're currently looking into the job retention scheme.  Can the portal be up and running in a matter of a few weeks?  Collossal task I would imagine.

Thoughts are offer them the retention scheme option or terminate their employment (won't be able to pay payment in leiu, but can cover this weeks wages) both are on Universal Credit  so not sure how that affects them with either option.

I know it's early and info is very thin on the ground but does anyone know how it's handled on the payroll side regarding the job retention scheme?  I know you have to lay them off unpaid in order to qualify, that's as much as I can glean so far.

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One of my clients with a cafe has shut, but has enough meat on the bones to pay staff for several months, but this scheme will come in handy if it gets worse.

My £1m a quarter client has shut, well mothballed. Overnight income just vanished.  

I have a landlord client, has about 20 properties he rents to long standing tenants (and some commercial stuff as well) - he has told all his clients that he will cover them  (nice to hear)

Lots of others are taking a hit, although most are changing how they trade/diversifying  even if its from a small base.  None with potential layoffs as yet, a couple will definately go for the rentention schemes/grants/whatever.

Folk are calling for a change for the self employed.  Have to say - what about the one man Limiteds (especially the work from home ones) - no help on offer!

Ive not heard how long it will take to get the rentention scheme set up but have to say Ive not been watching the newswires since it was announced due to a couple of major issues at this end.  Ive got a pal who is a management accountant involved on some major projects at HMRC so will see if I can get a response on that one (albeit he probably isnt sleeping much at the mo, so no time for chit chat!)

 

VinceH wrote:

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Folk are calling for a change for the self employed. Have to say - what about the one man Limiteds (especially the work from home ones) - no help on offer!

Quite. The self employed (and one man Ltds) have been left out in the cold over this. This is particularly annoying as people in that situation tend to work harder/longer hours than regular employees, and have fewer benefits.

Right now I'm dreading getting home over the next few days in case I get one of the letters to tell me to batten down the hatches and stay at home for 12 weeks. I think in my case it's 50/50 whether I'll be on that list, and I hope I'm not if they're don't come up with a viable solution for the self employed.

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 Hi Vince

Re: Lockdown: Are you Ltd or sole trader?  If sole trader no income you can claim "sick pay" from the Gov at around £95 a week.  Also apply for housing benefit to your council.

If Ltd and no income I would simply moth ball* the Co and claim universal credit.  It's temporarily going up £20 a week so you should get around £93 a week plus hb.

 

Still waiting to hear if the 80% income guarantee will apply to Directors.  If so and you've been taking the £8k approx in wages that'll give you around £125 a week plus hb 

It might be worth running both figures through turn2us to see whether the 80% job rentention reduces your hb too much

-- Edited by Leger on Sunday 22nd of March 2020 08:22:10 PM

Cheshire wrote:

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Leger wrote:

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Still waiting to hear if the 80% income guarantee will apply to Directors.  

 

-- Edited by Leger on Sunday 22nd of March 2020 08:22:10 PM

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The consensus seems to be that it will not. In part due to not being able to furlough yourself when you have Directors duties to perform/no employment contract etc.    The devil is in the detail and there is very little detail out there at the moment.

Being trying to find out about CBILS for a client - nothing until at least Wednesday as the systems havent been tested at their bank yet.  Some banks not yet accredited to provide them, although there are a lot of banks who have been accredited.   The Banks though are saying they want tangible security (so not just a directors loan, but one backed by their house, or other property)  - so they get doubly secured! Anything they cannot get back from that house/other assets covered by the government....so many will fall at the first hurdle and shouldnt pin their hopes on it!  Of course that was caveated with 'we havent seen the full detail yet' but thats how the existing guarantee scheme works (used to be the Small Firms Loan Guarantee Scheme, then the Enterprise Finance Guarantee Scheme). 

 

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 There is supposed to be a lot less restriction on applying for CBILS but it seems that the bank will be the arbiters. I can understand them wanting security for the 20% they'll be liable, but not the 80% guaranteed by the Gov.

Hi John

"Re: Lockdown: Are you Ltd or sole trader? If sole trader no income you can claim "sick pay" from the Gov at around £95 a week. Also apply for housing benefit to your council."

Where I am UC has been rolled out, so I'd have to claim that (again), and any housing benefit would therefore come from that. However, there's another issue with the way UC is done that will matter - not just to me if I end up claiming it, but also to others.

It's worked out on a month by month basis (to the 5th of each month IIRC) and you have to report your earnings to them - and whatever the amount you're entitled to, 63p (IIRC) is taken off of it for each £1 you've earned[1]. The lockdown has started part way through the month, and if it does only last three weeks (it probably won't, but the current plan is that it will), it'll end part way through next month.

That means SE people who are adhering to the lockdown and who's earnings have been as per normal for the period up to it - and assuming they will return to normal after it - will lose three weeks money, but get a pittance from UC to make up for it. Compared to employees who will get 80%.

Self employed peeps need to be given a better option. One possibility would be to grant them 80% of the sales figure from the last tax return, apportioned for the duration of the lockdown. (It has to be the sales, not the net profit, because they're still incurring their costs).

In my specific case, that's flawed - but a lot better than UC - because I was earning a lot less up until a few months after I moved last year, and I had to take steps to increase my earnings in order to be able to pay the rent. So my tax return figure doesn't reflect what I'm earning *now*- but it would be a lot better than the joke that is UC.

[1] It was based on the minimum income floor they assess for you if you earn less than that, but I understand that's being set aside for this crisis.

Edit: Changed an instance of SE to UC.

-- Edited by VinceH on Tuesday 24th of March 2020 11:40:45 PM

Good stuff Joanne.

Just thinking aloud but would it have been possible for the Gov to have set up an at arms business bank, no security but your house/assets on the line for the 20% if not repaid?

Then they need a good kick up the a*se!!

Hopefully from what you've said the message is getting through to them.